TRUNEWS Exclusive: Pope Francis Meets Evangelical Delegation

By on June 27, 2014
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By Rick Wiles | June 27, 2014

Two prominent Fort Worth-based Christian ministers led a delegation of Evangelical Christian leaders to Rome to meet privately with Pope Francis.

James and Betty Robison, co-hosts of the Life Today television program, and Kenneth Copeland, co-host of Believer’s Voice of Victory, met the Roman Pontiff at the Vatican on Tuesday.  The meeting lasted almost three hours and included a private luncheon with Pope Francis.

Mr. Robison told the Fort Worth Star Telegram, “This meeting was a miracle…. This is something God has done. God wants his arms around the world. And he wants Christians to put his arms around the world by working together.”

Mr. Robison said he was impressed by Pope Francis’ humility and courtesy to the visiting delegation of Evangelical Protestant Christian leaders.

In a written statement, Mr. Robison said he believes “the prayers of earnest Christians helped lead to the choice of Pope Francis.”  He described Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the Argentine Archbishop chosen as Pope, as “a humble man…filled with such love for the poor, downtrodden…”

In addition to Mrs. Betty Robison, the high-profile Protestant delegation included Kenneth Copeland, co-founder of Kenneth Copeland Ministries in Newark, TX; Reverend Geoff Tunnicliff, CEO of the World Evangelical Alliance; Rev. Brian Stiller and Rev. Thomas Schirrmacher, also from the World Evangelical Alliance; and Rev. John Arnott and his wife, Carol, co-founders of Partners for Harvest ministries in Toronto, Canada.  Gloria Copeland did not travel to Rome because of a previously scheduled commitment.

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Photo Courtesy of Life Outreach

The ecumenical meeting in Rome was organized by Episcopal Bishop Tony Palmer.  Rev. Palmer is an ordained bishop in the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches, a break-away alliance of charismatic Anglican-Episcopal churches.  Bishop Palmer is also the Director of The Ark Community, an international interdenominational Convergent Church online community, and is a member of the Roman Catholic Ecumenical Delegation for Christian Unity and Reconciliation.

Bishop Palmer developed a friendship with Pope Francis when the future Roman Pontiff was a Catholic official in Argentina.  Prior to becoming a CEEC bishop, Rev. Palmer was the director of the Kenneth Copeland Ministries’ office in South Africa.  He is married to an Italian Roman Catholic woman.  He later moved to Italy and began working to reconcile Roman Catholics and Protestants.  Kenneth Copeland Ministries was one of Mr. Palmer’s first financial contributors over 10 years ago in support of his ecumenical work in Italy.

Earlier this year, Pope Francis called Bishop Palmer to invite him to his residence in Vatican City.  During the meeting, Bishop Palmer suggested that the Pope record a personal greeting on Mr. Palmer’s iPhone to be delivered to Kenneth Copeland.  Mr. Copeland showed the Papal video greeting to a conference of Protestant ministers who were meeting at Mr. Copeland’s Eagle Mountain International Church near Fort Worth, TX.  In the video, Pope Francis expressed his desire for Christian unity with Protestants.

Later, James Robison telecasted the video on his daily TV program, Life Today.  “The pope, in the video, expressed a desire for Protestants and Catholics to become what Jesus prayed for — that Christians would become family and not be divided,” Mr. Robison said the response to the video was very positive, and that Pope Francis asked Bishop Palmer whether a meeting could be arranged with Evangelical Protestants seeking Christian unity in the world.

In his written statement released after the Papal meeting, Mr. Robison said he was “blessed to be part of perhaps an unprecedented moment between evangelicals and the Catholic Pope.”  He described the Protestant delegation’s private meeting with the leader of the Roman Catholic Church as “an intimate circle of prayerful discussion and lunch to discuss not only seeing Jesus’ prayer answered, but that every believer would become a bold, joy-filled witnesses for Christ.

In describing the ecumenical gathering as a miracle, Mr. Robison said, “This is something God has done. God wants his arms around the world. And he wants Christians to put his arms around the world by working together.”

During the luncheon on Tuesday, Mr. Robison got a high-five from Pope Francis after the Pope and Protestant guests talked about the need for all people to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.  According to the Life Today host, the Roman Pontiff did not know what a high-five was until Bishop Palmer explained it to him in Italian.  Mr. Robison said, “The Pope made it very clear that he wanted every believer to become Spirit-filled, joy-filled witnesses.”

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Photo Courtesy of Life Outreach

Mr. Robison said Pope Francis had written recently, “Too many Catholics look like they’ve been to Lent with no Easter. It’s a mistake for them to look like they’ve been to a funeral” as he challenged Catholics to witness and never try to control the Holy Spirit, but yield to Him.

Mr. Robison said he received a divine call from God to seek Christian unity while he was hospitalized several years ago with a serious staph infection following hip surgery.  Robison recalled, “[I] was so weak I could not lift a cup of water to my lips…God got my full attention…He spoke to me through Isaiah 58:6-12 and I saw the importance of living in freedom, touching the suffering, the hungry, poor, and downtrodden. I recognized the promise that our prayers would be answered quickly and we would become a free-flowing stream and a well-watered garden, restoring the foundations upon which we must build. During that time God instructed me to focus my attention on Jesus’ prayer and encouraging others to begin fulfilling it through us in our day.”

During that time, he said, he was impressed by a prayer of Jesus in John 17:21, pleading that all Christian believers be one.  “We’ve tried to focus on being an answer to Jesus’ prayer,” Robison said. “We want to see Jesus’ prayer for unity answered in our day.”

Aware that the meeting with the Pope will be troublesome among staunch Protestants, Mr. Robison said he and the other visiting Evangelical Christian leaders talked about diversity and their belief that Roman Catholics and Protestants could work together without compromising their beliefs.

“The world is suffering,” said Robison. “We as Christians have too much love to share without fighting one another.”

Mr. Robison said he and other “respected Evangelical leaders and Spirit-filled Catholics began meeting together to pray for God’s will to be done and to bring true believers together in supernatural unity….We have been commanded to love God with all of our heart and our neighbors as ourselves. The enemy has kept many Christians from loving one another as Christ loves us and have failed to recognize the importance of supernatural unity even with all of the unique diversity.”

Mr. Robison, whose ministry digs water wells and supplies food for impoverished people in third-world nations, recounted that he was christened as a fatherless boy in an Episcopal Church.  As an adult, he joined the Southern Baptist Church.  In the 1980s, he became one of the first prominent Southern Baptist ministers to openly proclaim he had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


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  • China preacher

    We are being sold a bill of religious goods.

    • June Cole

      Amen, brother.

    • New granny

      We who ??

    • http://www.emi-inc.org GRIEVED

      DON’T BUY!

  • richardruhling

    On Sept 25, 1997, well-known news commentator Paul Harvey eulogized Ellen White and ended by saying, “You don’t know her? Get to know her!”

    Ellen White wrote 130 years ago what we see happening today with Ken Copeland’s visit to Rome. Ellen White wrote,

    “The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their
    hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will
    reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under
    the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in
    the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.”

    We are seeing end-time prophecy being fulfilled. The quote is from a classic book anyone can read online. Here is a link to the chapter: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc36.html

    • One Icon

      I agree. I myself have recently woke up to the multitude of false doctrines enforced through Protestantism. I have also read much of her material and others. The delusion is so thick in this day and hour and it will be the protestant churches by the droves leading many away from Christ as many have done so already.

    • Julie

      Sure.

      Do you know there are many parallels between the numerologist’s ideas along with Joseph Smith’s….restorationists…cannot define the date they think Christianity stopped, meaning the Church Christ instituted stopped…and then had a re-start in the mid 1800′s America.

      Get educated.

    • Julie

      Likewise, mainline evangelical Christians consider Copeland, and his manipulation of Scripture to get what you want, a heretic.

      You put yourself in the driver’s seat, thinking you do this or that with Bible quotes, and voila! you get what you want.

      That is idolatry, using idols, be it even Bible quotes, to get them to make what you want to get stuff in this world.

      Jewish people told my friend here that they have alot of pity for Catholics the way others talk and what they say about …. us. And most are from so called Christians.

      Ignorance can be a sin when one does not seek the truth about God or neighbor. The Church is 2000 years old. Full of good and has its own scandals and failures…just like Israel because the Church, and Israel, are comprised of human beings.

      • Ben Westrick

        Julie, You are so right. “That is idolatry, using idols, be it even Bible quotes, to get them to make what you want to get stuff in this world.” I like everyone of your comments. Would love to shoot the breeze with you. You have zeal.

  • GEORGE DAVIS

    as mosses sed one on one side and one on the other ,now is this time repent live by YAWAY ALMIGHTYS COMMANDMENTS and recieve the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRISTS ATONEMENT FOR YOUR SINS ,AND ABIDE BY HIS COMMANDMENTS AS YOUR PHYSICAL LIFE DEPENDS UPON IT ,AMEN AND SHALOM

    • Gallibus

      And yet one can only receive the Blood of Jesus Christ in the Catholic or Orthodox churches – don’t blame me – that is the way the Lord ordained it. Go fight with Him rather.

      • Julie

        The ‘reformers’ went to the Orthodox to come join then and they took a quick exit.

      • GEORGE DAVIS

        i serve my father YAWAY ALMIGHTY AND HAVE RECIEVED HIS BLOOD ATONEMENT HE GAVE ME AS A FREE GIFT ,AS JESUS CAME OBIEDENT TO ARE FATHER EVEN UNTO DEATH.I AM PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST AND NOT RELIGUN ,AND I AM SAD THAT YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO,AS YOU R THE CHURCH AND NEED NO RELGUS GROOP JUST THE BLOOD ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST THAT WAS GIVEN BY ARE FATHER YAWAY ALMIGHTY,AND REPENT AND LIVE BY HIS COMMANDMENTS. I AM WITH YOU IN TRUTH WORD AND LIGHT,SHALOM

        • Gallibus

          How do you serve Him? In your own way or the way prescribed by His Son that He sent to teach us? ‘Unless you eat My Flesh and drink My Blood you will not have life in you’. That is what the Son of God taught us – it is a hard saying that has brought down many over the centuries, yet the Lord makes it easy for us in the Catholic and Orthodox churches since in his glorified body He becomes present to us in the form of bread and wine – body, blood, soul and divinity – that we consume. That is totally absent in the rebellious, alternative, do-it-my-way churches. This gift is not only refused by these members but also is not offered to them either unless they repent and do it the Lord’s way as He prescribed in His Church by His properly empowered priests. May the Lord enlighten you. God bless you.

          • GEORGE DAVIS

            may are father YAWAY ALMIGHTY MY ONLY FATHER IN JESUS NAME INLIGHTIN YOU AS WELL I PRAY FOR TRUTH WORD LIGHT AS THIS IS MY FATHER.I AM WITH YOU. #1 IN WORSHIP IN TRUTH IN SONG AND IN SPIRIT .AND BARE WITNESS TO THIS WORLD OF SIN AND DEATH AND HATRED AND INVEY AND ALL LUSTS OF THE FLESH,AMEN. I AM PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ISRAEL THE CHURCH OF PHILLADELFIA ,FOR THE LOVE OF A BROTHER,AND THIS IS WHOM YOU SHOULD WANT TO BE,5778 27 37 73

      • GEORGE DAVIS

        Who today would say: ‘Speak Lord, your servant is listening’? We are deafened by our own self-righteousness.

        • Gallibus

          Is it self-righteous to accept the Lord’s teaching in all humility or is it self-righteous to cling to one’s own self-serving opinions?

          • GEORGE DAVIS

            ONLY AND ALL GLORY AND PRAISE TO YAWAY ALMIGHTY IN JESUS NAME AMEN . WHOM WOULD I SPEAK TO SAY I AM BUT AS A MAN OF DIRT FILTHY AND CORRUPT UN CLEAN AS AN ANIMAL OF THE FLESH LUSTING AFTER MY OWN SELFISH WAYS, NO THIS I WOULD SPEAK OF MAN ,BUT OF MY FATHER I AM OF THE LIGHT TRUTH AND WORD MADE ONE IN THE TRINITY OF MY FATHER IN JESUS NAME, HOME AGAIN TO BOLDLY AND HUMBLEY FALL AT MY FATHERS FEET AND GIVE THANKS FOR ALL THAT IS AND WILL BE AGAIN AMEN THANK YOU FATHER FOR SENDING JESUS CHRIST WHOM WILLFULY LAID DOWN HIS LIFE FOR YOU AND FOUR ME AND FOR US IN COMPLETNESS OF YOUR HOLY SPIRIT.

      • GEORGE DAVIS

        AND WHO TOLD YOU THIS LIE, AS YOU KNOW THE DEVIL IS THE FATHER OF ALL LIERS ,AND MY FATHER IS YAWAY ALMIGHTY IN JESUS NAME AMEN TO WHOM ALL GLORY IS DUE FROM HIS HUMBLE SERVANTS AMEN…………………..

        • Gallibus

          Don’t ask me to convert you, Dear; that is the work of the Holy Spirit. Pray and ask Him to enlighten you – Jesus told us to ask in His name and it will be given to us – the Lord does not want us to be chained by the deceit of satan. Ask and you will receive. Don’t you trust Him?

          • GEORGE DAVIS

            I FEAR MY FATHER IN JESUS NAME AS YOU SHOULD ,ALL FEAR ,AS YOU WILL,I HAVE BEEN TOLD….27 37 73 5778

    • GEORGE DAVIS

      AND YOU DONT NEED A CHURCH TO RECIEVE JESUS CHRIST JUST A CLOSET OR SOME PLACE ALONE AND PRAY AND ASK HIM TO COME INSIDE OF YOU AND CLEAN U UP AND TURN FROM YOUR SELFISH WAYS AND LIVE BY HIS COMMANDMENTS,AND COME BOLDLY BEFORE ARE FATHERS THROWN .

  • GEORGE DAVIS

    AND I SAY TO THIS POPE SELL ALL THE VATICAN HAVES AND FEED THE POOR AND FOLLOW ME IN JESUS NAME AMEN.

    • Julie

      Do you have any documentation? Do you know the RCC gives more to the poor than any other country, inc USA, to the poor? Nobody owns anything. They administrate, that is all.
      The gold chairs, etc. are actually made of wood with gold paint. Find out…it is true.

      • GEORGE DAVIS

        i know they charge money to baptise babys ,AND I KNOW THE POOR LAY IN FRONT OF THER CHURCHES HUNGRY AT THER STEPS LIKE A WITNESS AGAINST THEM AS LAZERIOS . I KNOW WHAT MY FATHER YAWAY ALMIGHTY GIVES IS ALL FREE GIFT .ALL PRAISE TO YAWAY ALMIGHTY IN JESUS NAME AMEN,SHALOM

        • Julie

          People don’t have to give and we don’t tithe either…that was mentioned only a few times in the Old Testament.

          Do a search on how the Mass was said by St. Justin the Martyr. The Church expected the wealthy to support the poor and the rich, not the Church, decide how much to give.

          Ignorance and bigotry all in the name of the Lord!

          • GEORGE DAVIS

            LEARN HOW THEY DRUG THE PEOPLES BODYS THREW THE STREETS AFTER THEY DUG THEM UP FROM THER GRAVES SO THEY COULD CALL THEM EVIL AND STEEL THER FAMILYS INHERIATENCE .AND HOW HITLER SENT THE GOLD TEATH OF THE PEOPLE THEY PUT TO DEATH TO THE VATICAN ,AND THEY RECIEVED IT , SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND, AS I AM WITH YOU,SHALOM

          • GEORGE DAVIS

            DID YOU READ HOW THE HUSBAND AND THE WIFE DIED ,WOMAN WOULD YOU LIE ? THEY JUST DRUG YOUR HUSBANDS BODY OUT OF HEAR ,?????????????????????????????????????????

      • Keith

        The real hidden treasures from the 2nd Temple are probably hidden in the Vatican basement.

        • abbygirl08

          The real hidden treasure is Jesus Christ himself. And He is hidden in the hearts of believers. Praise God! The stone that the builders rejected.

          • Julie

            Have you ever gone to Mass?????

            Our worship is in no dirty basement.

          • abbygirl08

            Do you purposely try to misunderstand my statements, or does it just come naturally? Jesus Christ dwells in a believer’s heart! He supersedes all the treasures from the Tent of Meeting, or the 1st and 2nd Temple. It matters not where you worship Him.

            “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.” (John 4:23)

            A believer in Christ can worship in a jail cell, such as Paul did. I don’t understand your comment.

          • Julie

            Again. Study the history of faith and practice and the Mass.

            People who ridicule the Mass don’t realize the offense they are doing…as well as to the Lord.

          • Julie

            OF course people can pray in jail and honor the Lord.

            There are types of worship but the one we follow is the form the Lord defined at the Last Supper.

            The Banquet Table and Breaking of Bread is the fulfilled worship of the Lord.

            It is the Lord Who decides how we worship, not man, just as the Lord did in Exodus in defining how He wished to be worshipped and in great detail.

          • Julie

            Who said it is dirty?
            I have been to the Vatican and it is very clean.

            Again, Abby, you really need to forgive Catholics for what happened to your relative. I am sorry that happened to that person. But we are called to continually forgive.

          • abbygirl08

            Oh goodness, Julie. I was speaking of God’s precious Gift to us… His Son who dwells in the hearts of believers. I couldn’t care less whether the Vatican is clean or dirty.

            And as I said, the RCC had it’s purpose in the life of my relatives (PLURAL), in that it drove them straight into the loving arms of the Lord Jesus Christ. So I praise God for the RCC.

        • Julie

          Have you even been there??

      • Jim Forsyth

        Julie the Devil himself makes promises to the poor. He promises riches, prosperity, health, booze, sex and happiness. He even delivers sometimes.
        That doesn’t mean a thing.
        The main problem with the RCC is that they do not preach a Biblical gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ but rather a salvation through good works.
        ANY organization that holds the traditions of the “fathers” above the Bible, declare their leader to be infallible, turn bread into Jesus, worship Jesus mother as if she were alive and have silly ideas like purgatory where being “purged” makes you better should not be considered as co-workers together with believers in Jesus Christ by faith.

        • Gallibus

          These are ignorant and wrong statements. Who told you this rubbish? Have you done any research into the truth or did you just accept the opinions of others out of laziness and/or a false sense of loyalty? And, by the way, if nothing impure shall ever enter Heaven (Biblical), where do you think you will land up if not purged into purity as a result of God’s mercy? Hell is the only other place (Biblical). Did you think you will just be a ‘spook’ and roam the earth uncontented and homeless? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing especially if married to self-righteousness. Do be careful.

          • Jim Forsyth

            Hey Galibus, thanks for writing.
            I will not be “purged into purity” which is a gradual process after the death of the body and involves punishment and contrition. (And neither will you) God does not work that way.
            At the time of being “born again” (John 3:3) and believing by faith that Jesus has paid the price for my sins on the cross of Calvary, then my sins are gone and I receive His righteousness. It is a past event, not a future process.
            “Purged into purity” is one of many invented ways of attaining heaven by good works. God does not work that way. It is by faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ on our behalf that our name is in the Book of Life and 100%. We don’t need to add penance and purging which is nothing but trying to attain heaven by our good works. ONLY by the blood.

          • PGMGN

            Why then would St. Paul advise us to work out our salvation in fear and trembling, Jim? Just curious.

          • abbygirl08

            Read the next verse.

          • PGMGN

            “…For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will.”

            Exactly, abbygirl108. But human beings have free will and can reject God working and willing in them. That is sin. Otherwise there would be no admonishment to work anything out in fear and trembling. God would just make you do everything you should.

            That is why you need to continue reading:

            “…And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world.”

            Many there are who hesitate, murmur, and many more who resist the ‘doing’. If it is God minus free will that acts in us, then there would be no blaming the individual for their lack of correspondence with grace. Rather it would be God’s fault for not ‘making’ them do what they should.

            So the ‘works’ you seem to fear or reject is not so much the work itself, but the human work/element of corresponding to God’s motivation. Being prompt to act is a work. Being silent when one feels like murmuring is a work. Allowing yourself to be used by God and not actively resisting Him is a work. That is, it is a choice.

          • Julie

            Likewise in regards to Calvinist predestination…the Catholic Church teaches that God made us in His image with intellect and free will.

            His will and destiny is for all of us to be saved, but given that we have free will, it is up to us to turn to Him or to reject Him.

          • PGMGN

            Precisely, Julie. Our Lord does indeed know the eventual outcome, but that in no way gives us a pass on having to work toward that which we choose…

          • abbygirl08

            I don’t know what “mortification” means. But I believe in free will. You say that I fear and reject “works”. Yes I do as a means of salvation. Absolutely! That is plainly unscriptural. But whenever God has used me to bless someone, it is a delight to me. I feel both honored and humbled that He would use me in such a way. I don’t understand much of what Catholics teach, their doctrine and such. But I’m content that way.

          • PGMGN

            I’m sorry to know that your family was mistreated. Mine was too, actually. But those were people in the Church, not the Church herself. Even Judas betrayed Christ and likely mistreated or at the very least misguided those who looked to him for example. That said, “works” as a means of salvation are simply those instances where you allow yourself to be used to accomplish God’s will.

            You could reject those impulses God sends and say no. Those are the works the Catholic Church is speaking about. Not something you do completely by yourself, for we couldn’t even move a little finger without God’s permission.

            So saying human “works” are not against scripture as we have the free will to reject doing the ‘work’ that God calls us to do. Without ‘works’ or ‘fruit’ one cannot be said to actually have Faith, not really. Much like the old saying, actions speak louder than words. So our acts, or works, are necessary.

            God bless.

          • Julie

            What are Christ’s words at the Last Judgment?

            You are not following Christ’s words in Luke, ‘Do penance for the remission of sin, lest you likewise perish!’

            People like Luther…sin lustily…

            When in Fact Jesus came to save us from sin and we must put on the Cross, not the prosperity gospel.

            To follow willful ignorance and promote lies are sins against neighbor.

          • Jim Forsyth

            Sorry, where does it say that in Luke? I will look it up.

          • Julie

            Luke 13:3. Also check John 20:23, Acts 2:38. Don’t have psalm but it speaks of having sorrow for sin, which is a form of penance.

            You are not saved until you are with the Lord in heaven. Saved at 40 and backslided at 80. Alot of other Protestants don’t believe always saved either because Jesus’ mission was to save us from sin.

            One way to avoid sin is to avoid false witness and bigotry against us. It is very hurtful. Just because the Church is big doesn’t deny the humanity within it.

          • Gallibus

            Dear Jim, even if it were true that we could be saved by good works during life, the question does not arise after death when the purging of remaining damage due to sin occurs – in that state one will ‘pay the last penny’. Many people mistake the need for good works as being a way to pay the price for misdeeds; in reality it is a way to be sanctified – to become ‘perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect’. It appears that you have fallen for a half-truth. After death, it is too late for contrition – the judgement is in and the sentence will be carried out. Otherwise what is the point of having a judgement? You tell me!

          • Jim Forsyth

            Dear Galibus. Thanks for considering this. The idea that Christ’s death on the cross pays for SOME sins and His children need to pay for the rest by penance and purging is foreign both to Scripture and also to God’s nature.

            The destination (Heaven or Hell) is determined here on earth based on whether or not we believe on Jesus death in our place. (John 3:18). By you declaring that you will put your trust in your own suffering instead of Jesus death in your place puts you in a scary situation, I would not want to be there.

            God will have a bountiful entrance into Heaven for his children, he will not be waiting there to punish them until their sins go away. The whole concept of this is wrong.

            Jesus death on the cross paid for all our sins, past present and future. Believe on Him and Him ONLY. Jesus lived a sinless life so He alone is qualified. The only way that we can pay for our own sins is by spending eternity in Hell.

            Please Galibus, throw out this idea that you need to “pay the last penny”. Trust in Jesus to pay ALL the pennies. He DID pay for all the pennies, whether you believe it or not, but by you believing in Him only and completely then you name is written in God’s book of life and you are adopted into God’s family from Satan’s family.

            God does not want to punish His children, he wants to reward them. This is the purpose of the judgement, to pass out rewards, not punishments. Look up “Bema Seat Judgement”, it is from the Olympics where all participants are rewarded, even those who come in last. The judge does not shake his finger at the last person and tell him he needs to be punished.

            Matt 25:21 says “‘Well done, good and faithful servant … Enter into the joy of your lord.”

          • Gallibus

            So what is the point of free will then?
            If one is going to heaven straight away in any case, then one can sit back and be as impure as one wants. The Lord has said in one of His recent Messages that the punishment for sin is much worse the other side of death than here – which is something to consider even if one does not accept the Message.
            What if one is not perfectly faithful – then what? Does one go to Hell then? What is the point of having a Judge if there is no sentence and, since before Jesus’ redeeming sacrifice we would all be going to Hell anyway, what would He be saving us from if only those dying in perfection (would there be anybody?) would be eligible? God is not mocked and one cannot simply go on sinning and expect to escape just punishment. Perhaps you should carefully re-read my previous comment.

          • Jim Forsyth

            Galibus, you have a free will. It is 100% your decision as to whether you will trust in Jesus death in your place or whether you will trust in being “purged”.

            It is impossible for you to atone for your own sins. In the Old Testament they depended on the death of a lamb and today we depend on the death of God Himself, who died in our place.

            Salvation is a free GIFT which cannot be EARNED. We cannot purchase our salvation. Please stop trusting in being punished to be good enough and accept the free gift which we do not deserve.

            Jesus loves you and died for you and he wants you to trust Him only. Believe Him.

          • Gallibus

            Are you saying that you can be forced to go to heaven? Because, no matter what evil you do you will go straight into the presence of the all-holy God? Regardless? Illogical! You have fallen for a half-truth, satan’s specialty.

          • Jim Forsyth

            At the time of my death I will “go straight into the presence of the all-holy God?” This is because of Jesus Christ death in my place on the Cross of Calvary. God is my father and He does not need to beat me up for a while first to “purge” my sins.

            How much purging is necessary? A day? A hundred years? A million years? The answer is that without Jesus substitutionary death then all of eternity is not enough.

            Do you trust Jesus 90% and getting purged 10%? Please stop trusting in dead works and trust Jesus 100%.

          • Julie

            You are the one who is self righteous and making all sorts of false claims as if you are better than others.

          • Gallibus

            Truth is truth. The one who announces it is independent of it. Truth exists of itself so it has nothing to do with me.

          • PGMGN

            If Truth is Truth, which it is, why are you seemingly so afraid of Alphonsus Jr.’s admitting to the modernist fallout after VII?

        • PGMGN

          How so do you think Catholics ‘worship’ Mary as if She were alive. That said, do you ascribe that the Lord God is the God of the dead? If so, you misunderstand what it means to live in Christ Jesus and you misunderstand that those who follow Christ shall not die.

          He said so Himself, Jim.

          As to being ‘silly,’ what is/was silly is ascribing 1500 years of Catholicism that protected and promulgated the Bible as somehow demonic just because that same text was hijacked to common language and then changed to support man’s preferred views that there need be no works (Nobody ever said works alone satisfied for diddly, but faith accompanied by works. As works show the manifestation of faith.)

          If Catholicism were so evil, then Luther and the rest shouldn’t have trusted word one of the scripture that was passed down through the Catholic Church. Or would you take at face value a meal handed down from a known poisoner and give it to your children just because you’d picked through a few of the string beans?

          Doesn’t make sense, Jim.

          • Jim Forsyth

            Please don’t put a capital “S” on “she” when you refer to Mary. Mary was a very nice young lady that had the privilege of being the mother of Jesus. She died and went to heaven. Putting the capital “S” answers your question as to how Catholics worship Mary.

            Sorry for the word “silly”. A better word would have been “wrong”.

          • Julie

            Willful ignorance…

            Are people like you descendants of the KKK? I am serious because so much of this stuff comes from the Deep South…prejudice against blacks and Jews as well.

          • abbygirl08

            Good grief! Are you kidding? Talk about a stretch! KKK? Blacks and Jews? You just lost ALL CREDIBILITY!

          • PGMGN

            I will indeed put a capital ‘S’ when referring to Our Blessed Mother. If you hold to sola scripture, you should look to Her fiat, Jim. “… all generations shall call me Blessed.”

            Do you?

            Mary is God’s Mother, Jim, the woman predicted in the Old Testament. Not just ‘a very nice young lady.’ Good grief, man. Mere common sense should lend you to understand that. There is no need to be envious of Her position, however. But even on the natural level, would you not show special affection and deference for the mother of your dearest friend? Or would you dismiss her as just some kindly old lady, but no one of significance.

            If you did the latter, that is disregarding, I can assure you that your friend would not be all to pleased with that action. If the latter, your friend would take into account that you honor his mother as further display of your honor and respect and love for Him. Because Our Lady’s position as Christ’s mother is where the honor comes from – not worship as you incorrectly presume.

            For even as we are called to honor our mother and father, do you not know that Our Lord, fully God and fully man, kept the laws in all fullness. So how do you think that He would not have a care to honor His own mother? And if Our Lord honors His own mother – then we should honor her as well. (Think of Cana when it would appear that Our Lord dismissed Our Lady’s request to aid the wedding couple in their lack of wine. Our Lord worked His first miracle there, before even His proscribed time, at the behest of His mother.)

            Would you be less than Christ like?

          • Julie

            The same type who refuse to study Christ’s worship of the Mass.

          • PGMGN

            I’m not sure what your point is here, Julie, but would like to very much.

          • Julie

            Do you know how Catholics actually worship? Doubt it.

            Another false claim..bibles in chains so people couldn’t read them. it took over 300 sheepskin to make one bible…very costly and after the Reformation, most people still couldn’t read.

          • PGMGN

            I didn’t make that claim, Julie. But you are absolutely correct in that reproducing ‘books’ was not then what it is today. And the majority of the population was illiterate.

            So to those who toss around the accusation of the Church supposedly withholding the Bible from the people, would you give a rare first edition copy of anything to someone who couldn’t read or did not have the means to care for it properly?

            Good grief. Put your thinking caps on already.

          • Gunny L

            Hmm, I think you are misinformed PGMGN. By the way, what does PGMGN stand for?

          • PGMGN

            Why do you ask? And from what authority to you draw your information with regard to what is accurate and what isn’t, Gunny?

            Thinking one is misinformed would indicate that the one making the accusation isn’t informed of the Truth.

        • Julie

          That is because Luther took it on his own to change the Bible.

          Why follow interpretations of men that only lead to more misinterpretations?

          The promises you stated are not taught by our Church.

          The bible is open to interpretation…If you don’t believe in the early Church Fathers, then you don’t believe in the apostles or anything after.

          Where is the witness of faith after the death of the last apostle? Where is the witness of the Resurrection? Who was out there?

          Scripture and Tradition of faith and practice…there were no bible worships.

          You cannot enter heaven with sin…and it is sinful to spread lies about others including Catholics.

        • Gunny L

          Jim, this problem exists within the “evangelical” church as well. We might not come out and say our “leaders” are infallible; however, an atmosphere of infallibility is generated by ignorant followers, and is not discouraged by these self appointed leaders.

          • Jim Forsyth

            Yes Gunny, there are wrong ideas in the evangelical church. The main difference is that the born again evangelical churches preach the Biblical salvation through faith in Jesus Christ only while the Roman Catholic Church preaches that in order to attain heaven we must have good works.

      • GEORGE DAVIS

        YES MAYBE THE CHAIRS WER GOLD PLATED BY THE JEWS GOLD TEETH ,AS HITLER SENT TRUCK LOADS TO THE VATICAN AND THEY RECIEVED IT.

    • Gallibus

      And after that there would still be the poor …. mainly because of our selfishness and our delusion that it is OTHERS who are called to be generous.

      • GEORGE DAVIS

        THE POOR YOU ALWAYS HAVE WITH YOU.HOW DOES MONEY PROFIT THE SOUL ?

        • Gallibus

          Money can profit the soul by using it to be generous to others – use it to gain profit in Heaven by learning self-denial and practicing love. Thus it is necessary to give of oneself rather than sit and advise others to do it.

          • GEORGE DAVIS

            GIVE ALL THAT YOU HAVE AND FOLLOW ME ,AMEN AS HE GAVE EVEN UNTO DEATH

    • Julie

      Do you know the Church gives more to the poor than the USA or any other country?

      Do you know that nobody owns the Vatican? It is managed by ecclesiastics but nobody owns anything.

      Do you know the Catholic priests renounce their entire being to live totally for the Lord?

      An evangelical watch maker told me the other day that the Vatican owns Bank of America…and to do a search and so I did and so many other spins out there…goofy. The Bank of America is a corporation, has so many shareholders, top5 are American business men.

      Actually, the Vatican is running a deficit. But guess you cannot find that believable.

      • GEORGE DAVIS

        DO YOU KNOW THAT THIS RELIGUS ORGANIZATION HAS SLAUGHTERED MY BROTHEREN IN CHRIST AND HAVE WENT OUT IN MY FATHERS NAME AND DID SUCH. NO I WILL NOT BE TOLD HOW TO RECIEVE AND EAT THE BREAD OF LIFE.AS I AM OF MY FATHER AND HAVE TOLD YOU. HOW MUCH ARE YOU ALL WILLING TO GIVE TO ARE FATHER WHOM CREATED YOU IN JESUS NAME .I AM HEAR TO LET YOU KNOW WE ARE TAKING THIS PLANET BACK IN JESUS NAME FOR THE MILLINIUM OPROACHES ,AND WHOM WILL INHERIT THE EARTH CHILDREN.MY FATHER WANTS YOUR WHOLE HEART IF THAT MEANS GIVING EVERYTHING UP YOU LOVE ,AS JESUS DID UNTO DEATH , I LOVE YOU TRUTH WORD AND LIGHT AN I AM WITH YOU,SHALOM

    • GEORGE DAVIS

      BUT HE WENT AWAY WEEPING IN SORROW.

    • GEORGE DAVIS

      BECOME A TRUE PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST,AMEN

  • One Icon

    It is no wonder that Daniel was sick after his visions. Luther, Calvin, and so many of the reformers would roll in their graves at this union with that mother harlot of abominations and idolatry.

    • Julie

      Man made Christianity and all its divisions.

      • Gunny L

        Agreed, the division is sickening.

        • abbygirl08

          Division to a certain extent is necessary.

          1 Corinthians 11:19
          For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.

    • Julie

      I would add that people don’t realize how scrupulous Luther was and about his negative home life.

      Scruples is the first step into insanity. Luther was also suffering from physical ailments…an angel of the Lord, he admitted, appeared to him and told him to not go forward with his breakaway Christianity but he did.

      One of his testimonies is his ‘toilet at Worms, Germany’. He spent much time restructuring his (alone) concept of Christianity when he was dealing with intestinal ailments…won’t go any farther here….let the mind think.

      • abbygirl08

        scru·pu·lous

        (of a person or process) diligent, thorough, and extremely attentive to details.

        “the research has been carried out with scrupulous attention to detail”
        synonyms:careful, meticulous, painstaking, thorough, assiduous, sedulous, attentive, conscientious, punctilious, searching, close, minute, rigorous, particular, strict

        very concerned to avoid doing wrong.

        “she’s too scrupulous to have an affair with a married man”
        synonyms:honest, honorable, upright, upstanding, high-minded, right-minded, moral, ethical, good, virtuous, principled, incorruptible

        • PGMGN

          Scruples, when used in the religious context, is something akin to spiritual paranoia, abbygirl108. Julie wasn’t making anything up.

          • abbygirl08

            synonyms:honest, honorable, upright, upstanding, high-minded, right-minded, moral, ethical, good, virtuous, principled, incorruptible

            So those who have scruples (in a religious context) are paranoid? That says a lot about Catholicism.

          • PGMGN

            abbeygirl, you confuse my dialogue with you for some schoolyard one up contest. If your dialogue is for the purpose of understanding another person, resorting to snappy comebacks is counterproductive.

            Language usage changes. Discrimination used to be a good thing, indicating that one had the good sense to choose the good from the bad. And love used to be something pure whereas now it is commonly misunderstood as lust.

            So again, Christians as well as Catholics can suffer from what is termed ‘Scruples’. Where one is constantly afraid that their sins are not fully confessed or that they have sinned some way that they are not capable of expressing themselves. They are tormented by fear of offending God and never being able to rid themselves of guilt. Much like if a person took a shower and yet was still convinced they were covered with filth. That’s why I termed it a form of paranoia.

            Martin Luther suffered from scruples, abbygirl. You may want to read up on his life. A tortured soul.

            God bless

          • PGMGN

            For further reading:

            Scrupulosity is a psychological disorder characterized by pathological guilt about moral or religious issues. It is personally distressing, objectively dysfunctional, and often accompanied by significant impairment in social functioning.[1] It is typically conceptualized as a moral or religious form of obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD),[2] although this categorization is empirically disputable.[1]

            The term is derived from the Latin scrupulum, a sharp stone, implying a stabbing pain on the conscience.[1] Scrupulosity was formerly called scruples in religious contexts, but the word scruples now commonly refers to a troubling of the conscience rather than to the disorder.

            As a personality trait, scrupulosity is a recognized diagnostic criterion for obsessive–compulsive personality disorder.[3] It is sometimes called “scrupulousness,” but that word properly applies to the positive trait of having scruples

          • abbygirl08

            I was unaware until now that having scruples meant you had a psychological disorder.

          • PGMGN

            That is why understanding context is critical in order to have a meaningful dialogue. Otherwise it just downgrades to talking ‘at’ one another and perpetuating old biases.

            God bless..

          • abbygirl08

            PGMGM,
            I honestly think your right. I have seen very little good accomplished here. I think the only ones who have benefited are Trunews in that they have attracted a lot of traffic to this site with this particular topic, and in a way I kind of feel like we’ve been used (if that makes any sense). So with that, I’m going to bow out. But I wish you and your fellow Catholics well. May you grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

            God bless you too.

          • PGMGN

            I wish you the same, abbygirl. And I think you are absolutely correct about media outlets benefiting. If they didn’t, there’d be no story.

            God bless!

          • Jim Forsyth

            Hey Abbeygirl, it always does good to present the truth. Great job. Now we can leave it with our friends and it is up to them what they do with.

            God bless you Abbeygirl and God’s Word will not return void, it will bear fruit.

          • abbygirl08

            God bless you too, brother.

          • H2o2Bill

            TruNews did nothing more than inform us of what is going on. I have never seen so many exchanges on here before.

          • abbygirl08

            I know Bill. I should have kept my thoughts about TN to myself. But even though there has been so many comments, do you really think anyone’s mind was changed? I don’t.

            Take care

          • H2o2Bill

            I here where you are coming from it seems that few here are able to relate the gospel to individuals. The conversations needs to move slower and in love. We are going to see more and more of this Ecumenical push though. When presenting the gospel message it should relate to an individual. Not a one size fits all. I thought I recognized a name on here and is why I jumped in. I know I do much better in a one on one situation rather than a group setting like this. The same with chat rooms we had a good chat room once where we helped people but sometimes a person feels overwhelmed by so many people blasting them all at the same time. It was a lot more work to go in private one on one but it sure seemed to turn out better. You take care and don’t let all of this get to you. The truth does need to go out and when lies are posted they do need to be challenged. It just seems like today it went in many different directions and some of it was heated. You probably right no one had their minds changed today. Hopefully in time some of this might act as a reminder to some.

            You take care and God bless,

            Bill

  • June Cole

    The Bible, is the truth, read Matthew 24:24.

    • Julie

      Jesus Christ is Truth.

      The Bible is written in text and that is why it is so easily misconstrued and misconstruing intent leads Christians to hate each other and believe the stuff coming off the site here.

      Goofy.

      • Gunny L

        So you’re saying we can’t trust the written Word? So what is your basis for faith? Just asking.

        • Julie

          The Church is the interpreter of Sacred Scripture and most the foundation of Catholic belief is based on Scripture. It is elucidated by Early Church Fathers, theologians, the saints.

          There is no witness to the Resurrection within protestantism after Revelations, no sense of history.

          You have to know what to interpret.

          The Scripture in essence is the Living Word of God, and the bible was assembled by many people that took a long time and upheld the oral tradition of Christ handed down by the Apostles. It took some more time to verify that St. John did author his gospel as well as the Book of Hebrews, that former taking 200 years to verify for public revelation.

          In the Catholic sense, we see the Bible as whole, not fragmented, somewhat disconnected parts. Every word of Scripture points to the whole and it takes those consecrated to God, chosen by Him, to assure that the understanding we receive from the Lord is what He intends for us.

          The Church allows private bible studies where one can interpret them personally that may not fit another’s.

          Remember, Jesus did not pass out bibles. People could not read in many places. My grandmothers could read but both only had an 8th grade education.

          A priest’s education is equal to a Ph.D. and in the Church, there is due process, that all new theological reflections must be brought before the Church to assure they continue with the faith Christ gave us through the apostles 2000 years ago.

          True interpretation bring us deeper into communion with the Holy Trinity and our neighbor.

          You go to a Catholic Mass or meetings, or educational services, you will never hear anyone denounce a protestant. Ideas contrary to ours will be discussed professionally but never denigrating and always affirm others’ good will.

          I just see alot of ignorance and bigotry on comment forums like this and most of the time I don’t have the time to respond to them.

          But know such things they are saying about Catholics are not true, and typical spins put out there by the English who started it hundreds of years ago the most guilty of creating scenarios. Very sad.

          • Gunny L

            Well, I can see you are well versed in Catholic doctrine and teaching.

      • abbygirl08

        Yes! He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life! And I don’t hate anybody. I don’t understand your problem other than you want everyone to be RC. It’s not going to happen. It is Jesus Himself that calls us unto Truth. And most times He speaks to us through His word (written text). Yet you make light of it? If you have no regard for for it, then you are an easy target for deception. And please tell me, if it’s not that important, then why did so many suffer and die in the process of preserving it?

        I will hand it to you… you sure are persistent! Many people are sincere, though. But some are sincerely wrong. Blessings to you.

  • abbygirl08

    I think we’ve been down this road before. If these preachers/pastors want to be united with the RCC, then my prayer is that their followers will wake up and high tail it back to God’s Word. What else can you say?

    • abbygirl08

      Bishop Palmer looks quite pleased.

      • t. mess

        Palmer gives me the willies. I think he is the deceptive one. He is the one hand picking the attendees of all these meetings.

    • Brumy

      … and the way Robison declared all these leaders in the room speak for thousands. That’s arrogance.

    • Joseph

      Hey Yo, the Bible is a Catholic book. Your interpretations have been increasingly aberrant over the past 500 years. None of you non-Catholics can make any sense out of 1 Corinthians 11:27-34 or John 6. It’s not symbolic! And itt’s our book – we compiled it from use in the earliest Mass, when everyone was Catholic and followed the local bishop. You guys removed chapters from it and ignore anything you can’t understand. lol

      • w1deopen

        Reconciliation is the key. No matter how you do it. The lord honors a repentant soul. And you know this!

      • bobby

        Jesus calls “He who hungers & thirsts after righteousness”. He referred to himself as ‘rivers of living water’, a ‘door’, and a ‘vine’; those are symbolic words; he’s painting a picture for us to grasp the relationship he has with us. John 6:35 – “I am the bread of life; he who COMES TO ME…”, not ‘he who eats my body’. In 1 Corinthians the cup (strongs: drinking vessel) and bread are done “in REMEMBRANCE”. The bread and cup are REPRESENTATIONS of Christ’s body and blood that are partaken IN REMEMBRANCE, not some mystical appearing of actual flesh and blood (which incidentally, at the time of the Last Supper, had NOT BEEN SHED YET). John 6:63 – “It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits NOTHING; the words that I speak to you, they are SPIRIT and they are life.” In Matthew 26:29, Jesus refers to the cup as the “fruit of the vine,” not his blood. In Matthew 26:26 Jesus “broke the bread;” broken bread to REPRESENT the breaking of his body; not little sun disks (google sun disks, dagon fish hat, queen of heaven). Jeremiah 7:18 – “…baking cakes to the queen of heaven….that they might provoke me to anger.” This is too important to take any man’s word for it, for even Satan himself disguises himself as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14).

        • Julie

          You do not know the history and witness of faith based and centered on the Eucharist. Why do you pick and choose what you want to believe that is literal or not?

          If you had any background on Jewish worship you would begin to understand the covenant of Christ’s Blood,…not bible text.

          • Gunny L

            Julie, where are you getting your information from, and what make you a Bible historical authority?

          • Julie

            You need to look at history.

            Look up St. Justin the Martyr and the description of the liturgy in 154 AD. This is how worship was practiced throughout the ancient Christian world up to today.

            It is the Liturgy that opens up Scripture, not biased bigoted men.

          • Gunny L

            I am a history major, and I have been very interested in the early church: how the church was before men began to twist it (including the Catholic Church). There are few if any non-biased historical documents.

      • abbygirl08

        Not following you. The new testament was written by Jews. And if it was a “Catholic” book, then why did the RCC expend so much energy suppressing it to the point where many true believers were tortured and put to death? I understand 1 Corinthians 11 and John 6. “Us guys removed chapters”? Tell me how so.

        Yo.

        • abbygirl08

          Yo. Posting this again. Well worth a listen. Dave Hunt.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG-kNggsPmA

          • Julie

            Another false teacher leading you away from the Eucharist that alone can give you eternal life.

            Anyway, if you want to thrive on anti-Catholicism, then that is your way of life and your belief, and your fruit of faith.

            So far the Scriptures say at Last Judgment…’No heaven for Catholics.’

        • Julie

          That is one of the spins…Pray to the Lord to come to the Truth of Jesus…and to His followers.

        • Robert William

          The Othodox and the RC both include what you call the apocrypha The reformers either put those books in an appendix or removed them The reason they were dropped is that they teach Catholic doctrines that the Protestant Reformers chose to reject. Earlier we cited an example where the book of Hebrews holds up to us an Old Testament example from 2 Maccabees 7, an incident not to be found anywhere in the Protestant Bible, but easily discoverable in the Catholic Bible. Why would Martin Luther cut out this book when it is so clearly held up as an example to us by the New Testament? Simple: A few chapters later it endorses the practice of praying for the dead so that they may be freed from the consequences of their sins (2 Macc. 12:41-45); in other words, the Catholic doctrine of purgatory. Since Luther chose to reject the historic Christian teaching of purgatory (which dates from before the time of Christ, as 2 Maccabees shows), he had to remove that book from the Bible and appendicize it. (Notice that he also removed Hebrews, the book which cites 2 Maccabees, to an appendix as well.)

          • Robert William

            Abby If you can point out how and what true believers were kept from reading the bible I will attempt to address the issues. Two important issues. until the 1800′s most people could not read. and Until the printing press (the first book printed was a Catholic Bible) A bible costs about $100,000 in today s money so nobody could afford them. WHich is why they were chained to something at church which is the root of protestant supression myth.

          • abbygirl08

            Please listen to the audio by Dave Hunt posted below. Then get back to me.

          • Robert William

            Wild exagerations and anti Catholic rubbish. Why bother posting it because its propaganda not factual.

          • Robert William

            Being that Hunt was not alive during the time of the early church he has no idea what the early church was. The easiest way to see what the early church was like is to look to the orthodox church where there was no reformation. Protestants make all sorts of wild claims but when pressed for actual historical documents to back up their claims they have none.

          • Robert William

            Abby why does the bible contradict sola scriptoria? In addition please do some research into the actual number of people killed during the inquisition and take a look at the blood on the hands of the reformers who all butchered each other as well as butchering catholics.

          • abbygirl08

            And you were alive during that time? Therefore you know?

          • abbygirl08

            Did you bother listening? He quotes Catholic scholars and historians. THEIR OWN WORDS!

      • Jim Forsyth

        The Bible is a mostly Jewish book (Luke was not a Jew and he wrote Luke and Acts). It was written under inspiration of God and since they did not have printing presses back then it was preserved by Jewish “Scribes” who used extreme means to preserve accuracy. It is God’s writing to man and it’s key verse is John 3:16 which is salvation by believing in the blood of Jesus Christ and not by our good works.

      • Gunny L

        Yeah…hmmm???

  • w1deopen

    I think they are prettying up things for the end of the world as we know it. And preparing for the flight of the Phoenix.

    • w1deopen

      If they all aren’t just being fooled by their inferior intelligentsia.. The World Order may be a whole different bird. Like a Russian and Chinese Phoenix.

    • Keith

      And I’M the one who’s scary? Sheesh.

      • w1deopen

        Your scared of the future? Sheesh.

        • Keith

          Not scared-but not desiring it to come. Woe to you who desire the Day of YHWH.

          • w1deopen

            Come quickly Lord Jesus!

          • Keith

            You remember Rick’s shows-I believe it was 3 days running a few years ago with his “watchmen” all giving testimony? They all pointed to the Fall of that year-and guess what-not a damn thing happened-that year or the next for that matter. And Michael Boldea was one of those watchmen up on his bully-pulpit preaching repentance. But from WHAT? Virtually none of those “watchmen” even believe we have to follow YHWH’s Torah in the first place. So I ask again, repent from WHAT? You can’t repent from something if it has been “fulfilled” or done away with. These guys are the blind leading the blind.

          • Keith

            Oh yeah, and don’t forget to send your donation$….

          • Keith

            You wanna know why all the destruction is coming? For NOT following TORAH- that is WHY! I don’t need any mystical NWO stupid flaming phoenix fire bird. It is cut and dried SIMPLE.

            Isa 24:4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish.
            Isa 24:5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torot1, changed2 the law, broken the everlasting covenant3. Footnotes: 1Torot – plural of Torah, teaching. 2Jer. 23:36. 3This is the only reason, according to all Scriptures, why the earth shall be burned in the day of judgment – see also 13:9, 13:11, 26:21, 66:24, Mic. 5:15, Zeph. 1:2-18.
            Isa 24:6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.
            [I don't need all these stupid man-made explanations or dime a dozen theories-it is simple-even a 5 year old child could understand why.]

          • w1deopen

            Blind leading the blind? So who do you believe has been shown the future Keith? Who do you believe is a true prophet?

      • w1deopen

        Dumitru Duduman prophesied this through the mighty voice of Gods messenger Gabriel. Whether Russia and china run the World Order is just a theory and remains to be seen.

        • Keith

          You’re not maxxem, are you?

          • w1deopen

            No. Dose it look like my name say’s maxxem? More people then just maxxem believe what Dumitru was told by God. A lot more.

          • Keith

            Yeah, the Word does say that “many” will be deceived….

          • w1deopen

            And I got some news for ya there Keith! Your the one deceived.

  • larry

    and just when u thought it was safe to go back in the water.

  • New granny

    Amazing how fast these “discerning , spirit-filled, elect ” are so quick to jump on this Jesuit’s Bandwagon ! Shameful !

    • Keith

      Oh they’re filled a spirit alright.

  • keith bruner

    “signs and wonders”

  • Geezer

    Jesus Christ warned us about these days. Repent, get saved, get raptured.

    • Julie

      Well rapture idea came from a British preacher about 120 years ago and later relented, disbelieving afterwards.

      Rapture comes at Last Judgment.

  • New granny

    Wonder when Bro. Rick will address this issue directly and tell us what The Lord showed him about it ? Seems some of us have been blocked from commenting on the Facebook page for TruNews ,too bad . Leaves us with having to share and post on our own time lines .

    • New granny

      By the way , thanks for the e-mail !

    • Gunny L

      Yeah, I would not hold your breath too long.

    • Keith

      “What the Lord showed him”? THAT is some scary stuff right there. Does he have a red phone going to the Almighty Himself? There are plenty of deceiving spirits out there that can be verrrry convincing.

      • w1deopen

        Your the one that IS SCARY. You CANT know the voice of the Lord or have his spirit. Go back to your Baptist church or your Jehovah witness church. The dead churches. Or whatever hole you came out of.

        • abbygirl08

          In Keith’s defense (God knows we have deep differences) he has pointed out repeatedly from Deuteronomy about how to test a false prophet. It is advice that serves us all well.

          The Spirit and the Word ALWAYS agree.

          • Gunny L

            Agreed, but so many like to sound super-spiritual and self-righteous and twist the Word to agree with their statement or position.

          • Julie

            Well one good criteria…is if the prophecy comes true.

          • Keith

            Gee thanks abby. Yes, it is Deuteronomy 13. I don’t take wideopen’s comment to heart-water off a duck’s back. It’s just that Mr. Rick has made some for lack of a better word “prophecies” that just have not come to be. I’m skeptical to say the least.

          • abbygirl08

            You’re welcome.

          • Keith

            I think the only thing I’m comfortable in saying that YHWH told me this or that is by directly quoting His Scripture-(I may have the interpretation incorrect)-but when quoted verbatim, I think that is safe.

        • Gunny L

          Ok, W1de, are you making this sarcastic remark because you believe everything your told? I think a large percentage of the people who claim “the Lord told me” are full of ca ca. Especially when they try to be so super-spiritual and elusive about it.

          • abbygirl08

            Ca ca? Isn’t that Italian? You make me laugh. Can’t help it. My in-laws used to use that phrase. In fact I picked up on it and told my kids not to do such and such because “that’s ca ca”. They stopped immediately! It worked well. LOL

          • Gunny L

            Italian, Spanish….;-) I meant it to mean Poop in the derogatory sense.

          • abbygirl08

            I knew exactly what you meant. Such a great word without being to crude.

          • Julie

            The filipinos use it.

          • w1deopen

            God says in scripture the “mine will know my voice .So who are you to say anything about it. Since he has never talked to you.

        • Keith

          I “came out her My people” a while back.

          • w1deopen

            Your still here in America right? Living in the system? right?

          • Keith

            Free your mind and your ass will follow.

          • w1deopen

            Your still physically present . And subject to events. Is that why you trust in your Guns and not God to protect you. Doesn’t sound like you are quite there yet. You know. “Free indeed”.

          • Keith

            Look dude, you must have me confused with someone else or perhaps you’re just plain confused-I don’t remember mentioning ANYHTHING about “Guns” to you. You do sound like that psychopath, “maxxem”-he worships Dimitru Dudaman, too.

      • Gallibus

        Who today would say: ‘Speak Lord, your servant is listening’? We are deafened by our own self-righteousness.

        • Keith

          HaSatan will be glad put on his suit of bright light give you signs and wonders and let you think you’re listening to YHWH. So how is one to know which voice you are listening to? Deuteronomy 13 contains the answer-and probably other places in the Word as well.

          • Gallibus

            Pray! Pray! Pray! Notice that God is totally consistent and does not contradict Himself. You will recognize Him in His Love and consistency. Be careful of Johnny-come-lately reinterpretations of His Word.

          • Keith

            I don’t need to pray pray pray to recognize a false prophet-I just explained how to identify them.

  • Julie

    Rapture idea came from a minister from Great Britain about 120 years ago. Later he recanted his idea.
    Sorry but we will all have to go through hard times just like Our Lord did.

    • maryaha

      That is incorrect and misleading. People that believe the teaching of a pre-trib rapture originated in the 1800s never seem to understand that the girl, Margaret McDonald, that claims to have had a dream about this, did not believe in a pre-trib rapture of the church. The following was written by Doc Marquis after a thorough study on the origination of the word “rapture”:

      The reason so many people are saying that the word Rapture is only a recent term for certain Biblical events, is mainly due to an event that happened back in 1830.

      Back in 1830 a 15 year old girl of Irish/Scottish decent named Margaret McDonald, had a vision of a “Post-Tribulation” Rapture. Notice carefully, her vision was a “Post-Tribulation” vision and not a “Pre-Tribulation”
      Rapture.

      She said:
      1) “This is the fiery trial which is to try us – It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus.”

      2) “The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filledwith the Spirit that we shall be kept.”

      Notice carefully how Margaret stated that this fiery trial (the Tribulation Period) is meant to try the real members of the body of Jesus. And, note especially, Margaret tells us this trying comes from the Antichrist. Well, no matter which perspective you come from, this so-called trying of the members of the body of Jesus, could only happen during, or shortly after the Tribulation Period and “not”
      before it. In other words, Margaret McDonald’s so-called vision was “not” a “Pre-Tribulation Rapture” vision. Yet, so many people, False Apostles and False Teachers don’t tell you that. All they’ll usually tell you is that the Rapture of the Church teachings began with Margaret McDonald. They purposely leave out the part that hers’
      was a Post-Tribulation perspective as she claims it to have been and “not” a Pre-Tribulation Rapture perspective.

      • Julie

        Your idea of the rapture is not right and you are the one who is misleading…

        All those perspectives you are giving, and God bless you, it is personal because our faith is in our heart our entire beings….are from North American preacher men.

        Christianity has never believed this, only English speaking. I don’t even know who Margaret McDonald is.

        Anyway, Jesus Christ is the greatest event ever of mankind. After the Apostles…what happened to Christian witness?

        Rapture will come at the Final Judgment. Unfortunately, we will have to carry our cross, and some of us live like the early Christians did, facing death. In fact, the Catholic Church is already telling us to prepare and live our faith to face persecution and death. My father was a very devout Catholic and said we are approaching the AntiChrist. Sorry it won’t be me or my dad or the pope or any one faithful to the Lord.

        The pope is preparing us to connect more to people and to embrace poverty because he, like so many others, know the great economic and technical crash is coming. I also heard John Paul II’s audio with Martin Malachi that he too, heard, that WWIII would start by Russia…through the Ukraine. Russia could be the means to punish the world for its sin through fire.

        Go to former Evangelical, Shane Shaetzel’s site, ‘Catholic in the Ozarks’, who can explain truths of faith in a way that you can understand better.

        The present world as we know it faces destruction, but we as Catholics believe it is not the final judgment. There will be much suffering, but the devil will be chained for a thousand years…Christ will never return to earth, but judge and give us a new heaven and earth…Those who are called to live in those future times will have one faith, one shepherd. The Church will be poor but people will love one another and be very happy.

  • buc

    Thought the story was about working together for all mankind. Why all the hate?

    • New granny

      No hate here , simply Biblical Prophecy , History and understanding of the one-world religion agenda .

      • Mary Shinn

        Well, since the 16th century Reformation, the objection to the Faith.

        God is going to bring about the unity of Christianity. After the divine Awakening, the Warning of Revelation 6:15-17, Jesus’ prayer to the Father, that we all be one is going to happen as it was in the beginning of Christianity.

        Free Will, God will honor your wishes when He shows all people on the earth, the Remnant is Roman Catholic.

        Satan isn’t prophesied to abolish a Sunday Scripture reading and
        Fellowship. He is going to try and take away the most holy Eucharist.

        • New granny

          Well, Mary , interesting twist of scripture .

          • Julie

            Check out the Road to Emmaus and how it took the Eucharist, the Living Word of God, to enable them to understand Scripture.

            Catholics follow the interpretation of Scripture the apostles used and passed down.

            The world changes and today does not look like the ancient world either, but the Lord’s Word does not change.

    • JoyDon

      Jesus was not displaying hate when He boldly stood and declared the hard truth. And WHO hated Him for it the most? THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS like these very ones. And they dare to cuddle up to the one who DARES call himself the VICKER OF CHRIST! GAG! Enemies of the Cross of Christ and of the Blood shed at Calvary!

    • fromthemomma

      Hate for deception buc.

  • JoyDon

    Now we see the new hidden leaders of the Beast System…the wolves among us, and the demonic ones who have lead the Body down the road to the Mark of the Beast. These will be the leaders of the Body who will eventually convince the Christians to take the Mark and be damned forever. Now you know why the Illuminati has allowed them to have TV programs with no problem and to become filthy rich from the tithes of God’s people. Will the ones who swear that THEY have not been infiltrated be one of them? Be awake and aware, VERY AWARE.

    • Gunny L

      No, these are not the hidden “leaders:” You can see these guys. The ones to be concerned about are the “leaders” flying under the radar.

      • JoyDon

        These ones are bold and for years have been the Hidden Ones, but now are boldly displaying just WHO they REALLY are….for now it is time….. And the Body is so carnal that many will follow these deceivers right into the Lake of Fire.

        • Gunny L

          I agree Joy, but many have known about these guys for years. Have a great night.

          • JoyDon

            I was in the Prosperity Movement for years and for eight of those years we pastored a Word of Faith Church. And none of us knew…NONE! WHEN we did learn, we RAN FOR OUR LIVES AND CAME OUT FROM AMONG THEM. So do not just ASSUME! And you have a great night!

          • Gunny L

            I believe if we really belong to Him, He will lead us out. I too was in a word of faith church in California, and God lead me to the the truth.

          • JoyDon

            People need to be warned. It was our responsibility as Pastors to lead the sheep the right path AFTER we warned them. Ninety percent of our congregation got up and left and it was a hard time for awhile, but then the Spirit of God fell in such a mighty way and new ones flooded in and it was one glorious church we pastored after that.

            A few years later we gave it up and moved to the nation of Estonia when the Wall came down and founded our church with all new converts. It was not long before the Prosperity leaders came in and what a mess. But God was with us and He did great things…..regardless.

          • abbygirl08

            I doubt there is a single believer that has watched Christian TV that hasn’t been affected by the Prosperity gospel. One more reason to turn it off!

          • abbygirl08

            So….. Pope gets chummy with Muslims. Then Pope gets chummy with Protestant TV preachers. What’s next? Protestant TV preachers get chummy with Allah? Seems like the logical conclusion. Does sound doctrine count for anything anymore?

          • Julie

            All he is doing is making relationships and calling for people to not use violence and murder in the name of religion.

            They all ended saying they would work for peace and not violence and murder.

            You see, when you believe spin, it is the new interpreter…and then you cannot get the gist of what really happened.

          • Gunny L

            Yep, agreed.

    • Calvin Warren

      Amen!

    • fromthemomma

      Interfaith doctrine is the other side of this apostasy.

      • JoyDon

        You are right!

  • Keith

    Pack of wolves.

  • Alphonsus_Jr

    Sickening.

    • desiree madden

      What portion?

      • Alphonsus_Jr

        The insane ecumenism.

        The hard truth is that the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) heralded a new religion. The novelties of this new religion include, but are not limited to, a new council (one of a predominantly pastoral character, designed to place the Church in tune with the world rather than to
convert the world), a new ecumenism (an ecumenism of convergence, jettisoning 
the old ecumenism of return), a new ecumenical worship service (fabricated by a 
Freemason in consultation with six Protestant ministers), a correspondingly new 
conception of the priesthood (the priest as mere presider), a new ecclesiology 
(democratized, rule from the bottom up), a new kind of incense (“the smoke
of Satan having penetrated through some fissure in the sanctuary” as Pope Paul VI admitted), new pan-religious events (as at the scandals of Assisi, placing the Pope on the same level as voodoo con-artists and affirming every kind of heathen and heretic in their errors), a new cult of youth (as shown at the ridiculous World Youth Days and the absurd YOUCAT), a new brand of papacy (the celebrity papacy, about winning the applause of the world and spreading the new gospel of universal salvation), a new code of canon law, new standards of canonization (low, loose, inclusive), a new catechism (fully in line with
 the new “Spirit of the Council” and its “New Springtime,” and animated by the “New Pentecost” of the new council), yet another new kind of papacy (that of the militantly miserablist and hip Pope Francis the Groovy himself, he of the self-described “emancipated formation,” contrasted with the traditional formation of clerics of old). 



        Because of the confusion engendered by this Judas Council Revolution and the post-conciliar popes, I offer the following short reading program. I’d include the links but I’m afraid they won’t be allowed here. Therefore, do an internet search for each via cutting and pasting the following:

        1) The Errors of Vatican II – Si Si No No – Catholic Family News

        

2) The Inside Story of Vatican II [formerly titled: The Rhine Flows into the Tiber: A History of
        Vatican II], by Rev. Fr. Ralph Wiltgen

        3) The Catechism of the Crisis in the Church, by Rev. Matthias Gaudron

        4) Iota Unum: A Study of Changes in the Catholic Church in the Twentieth Century, by Romano Amerio

        5) The Second Vatican Council – An Unwritten Story, by Professor Roberto de Mattei

        Also search Youtube for the following:

        Vatican II Wreckage, playlist

        • Julie

          Remember there are many else who were marginalized but stayed…and things are turning around.

          • PGMGN

            And there were Jews who stayed in Jerusalem during the persecution in Macabees, too. And there were Jews who, for the sake of Faith and their children, fled to the hills.

            If memory serves, it was much thanks to those fresh troops from the hill country, that Jerusalem was relieved. So let’s be kind to our own and let Our Lord work as He wills to *turn things around*. For if all was as it should be, there would be no need to ‘turn anything around’.

        • Gallibus

          And look at all the messed up heretics YOU are associating with on these pages! Shame on you!

          • PGMGN

            Don’t blame those who ran to the hills to seek shelter in times of crisis, Gallibus. Or blame those sheep who were scandalized for still fearing the wolves that, sorry, are absolutely still mingling amid the flock.

            Our Lord asks for faithfulness, not blindness. So saying, what *heresy* is there in believing and cleaving to what the Church has always taught? Modernism once condemned that is now repackaged and dished up for dinner should be suspect. Not traditionalists.

        • PGMGN

          Excellent reading list, Alphonsus Jr. One must know the enemy both inside and outside to be effect a triumph.

          God bless!

  • Joseph

    This pope is troubling. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas. Panders to the press and any other bunch of non-Catholics that he can find.

    • Julie

      It is the press that is pandering and misinterpreting alot of what he says. He is speaking and using common language, as the poor do.

      Our bishop came to a parish where it had been entrenched by a certain Catholic mindset. something i have not seen in my entire life.

      The bishop said, quoting the Council, any Catholic who hates others will not only be condemned to hell, but that more punished.

      Careful!

      • t. mess

        I commend your faithfulness Julie. I would recommend praying that your Pope is not being deceived. Some of the people he is rubbing elbows with love money & ALL of us know what that means. Just as a personal opinion, something about Tony Palmer just doesn’t sit right w/me. Blessings to you & yours!

        • PGMGN

          You are absolutely correct that we need to pray for the Pope. No easy position as if the head of any family is brought down, so goes the children.

        • Julie

          Do you know about his lifestyle and living among the poor? anyway, I went to church today and prayed for everyone here.

          • t. mess

            I have not researched it. I guess I took It for granted considering the name he chose. I am not Catholic but I have done a good bit of “homework”. Some I agree with, some I don’t, but I am not the Judge. You are still my brothers & sisters in Christ.

  • David Ellul

    James Robison said that he received a divine call from God and that God spoke to him through Isaiah 58;6-12! Was it God that stopped him from continuing to read Verse 13 onwards in Isaiah 58? Where is the exact opposite of what the Church of Rome stands for?

    Praise YHWH for He has given His people Shabbat!

    • Hondo Stone

      ANYOINE…..Yes, ANYONE who claims they got a direct word from God is a damned LIAR!
      God’s word, not mine!
      Don’t be deceieved by anyone saying such nonsense!
      We have the Bible as our ONLY guide to Truth, not the LIES of sinful man!

      • Gallibus

        So yo reckon Moses was a damned liar too but you believe in the Bible? Quaint!

        • Hondo Stone

          You err in your understanding as do many!

          From the begining of time, and all through the New Testament right up until the very last book of the Bible was completed, there were signs, visions, dreams from the Lord and even God Himself speaking to His prophets.
          However, once the Bible was completed God tells us ( commands us ) to not add to His Word, nor to take away from His Word and therefore we have the full and complete revelation of God’s Word to us in the Bible alone and in its entirety.
          Anyone saying there is more of God’s revelation than that given to us in His Word, is a damned liar and deceives not only those who believe him/her, but they deceive even themselves.
          “Great peace have they that love Thy Law (Truth) and nothing shall offend them”

          • Gallibus

            Where does it say that the Lord will never speak to us again? The Lord is entitled to speak to us whenever He wills but you are right in that He will not contradict what He has already revealed and in that He has already revealed to us what He wants to be revealed to us. He is, nevertheless, able to remind us of what He has said and explain it so that we do not accept heresy – if He so wills. A large part of humanity will continue to ignore Him as in the past no matter what – because they don’t really believe that He exists or that He is the Supreme Being. So it is more comfortable to say He can’t talk anymore nor show us our errors.

          • Hondo Stone

            I am going to give you some homework to do Galibus.
            Read the book of Revelation and you will come to see where He commands that we are NOT to add to His word.
            That book of Revelation is an integrated part of the whole Book, the Bible and once it was finished, God was finished in speaking to us verbally through His prophets, and yet in our day especially there are a great many who profess Christ and claimed that He told them this, and He told them that and many follow their perdicious ways to hell.
            These so called prophets are devils in disguise and if you choose to believe them, you then chose to call God a liar by not holding true to His Word.
            The Word of God alone is what we have as our guide to all truth and ALL who say there is more are DAMNED LIARS!

          • Gallibus

            God’s Word is alive and active. Yes, there are many false prophets just as there are many false teachers. Satan likes to muddy the waters. But when there is a flurry of prophets, one needs therefore to sift them very well because satan is trying desperately to mask God’s saving actions. Study the wile of satan in the garden and you will be able to see how he works. ‘Do not despise prophesy’ (Biblical) – is this a contradiction? Or maybe you just did not understand very well. Realizing that the Lord does not contradict Himself will help in recognizing Him.

          • Hondo Stone

            No, it is not I that do not understand well, but thou!
            When Paul wrote those words through the power of the Holy Spirit ( “despise not prophecy” ) he said that WHILE THE BIBLE WAS STILL BEING WRITTEN!
            Do you understand that, or is it that you DO NOT WANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT?
            You are showing yourself to be willingly ignorant and by doing so, you call God a liar and say that He is still giving us revelation through His speaking to man, when He has very clearly told us otherwise.
            Believe what you will but you will come to utter horror on that last day if you follow this and all the other damnable things you believe in your damnable church.

          • Gallibus

            How you twist the words of Holy Scripture to come to your own understanding. Your words are not loving and show the work of the evil one. God bless you and enlighten you.

          • Hondo Stone

            My words are true because they are His Words to us.
            You believe not because the truth is not in you, otherwise you would believe.
            These same words Jesus told those self righteous Pharasises who were just like the Catholics of our day who trusted NOT God, but themselves and their works.
            They ALL died in their sins just as Jesus said and so will you if you come not out of that damnable church you so love and defend!

            “Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of the enemy are deceitful”

            The Truth of God’s Word is always an offense to those who love not the Truth!

            I make no appologies!

          • Hondo Stone

            Revelation 22:18.19 tells us His Word is now complete and this book of Revelation is an integrated cohesive part of the Bible which is One Word.
            To say that God is still telling us more than what He has told us in His Word, is to deny Rev. 22:18, 19 and those who do so are still subject to the plagues written therein and can be known to be DAMNED LIARS no matter who they may be or how much they speak about Jesus!

          • Gallibus

            I have not said that He is telling us more than what is in His written Word – He is merely reminding us of what He actually taught and stripping away the misinterpretations. Does He not have the right to do that?

          • Hondo Stone

            Wheneve you listen to and believe someone , ANYONE, no matter who they are, who claims that he or she has just received a message from God (regardless of what that so called message is), you then by doing so, call God a liar and believe this false prophet!

            God is not mocked and will always hold true to His Word and punish ALL who will not hold to His Word!

            Go ahead and believe these false teachers and false prophets and you will be on your own and on the road to hell, which you are presently on by following the damnable catholic church and all its damnable teachings.

            God will accept NO EXCUSES!

            I am telling you, and everyone else the truth of this very serious matter.

          • H2o2Bill

            1Co_13:8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

          • Gallibus

            Yes, in eternity one will not need the gift of prophecy nor that of tongues since one will already speak in the language of God and one’s limited earthly knowledge will be greatly surpassed by supernatural knowledge.

          • Gallibus

            When did God say the Bible was completed? Was that after the Catholic Church finished compiling it? Where was that statement of God recorded? And did God never, ever say anything else? Sounds like a dead God to me.

        • Hondo Stone

          Do you have a Bible?
          Do you?
          Do you read it?

          Once the Bible was completed, there was and is no more direct revelation from God, but the Bible alone and in it’s entirety.

          You are obviously ignorant of much that is written because you belong to a damnable church that teaches nothing but heresy!

          You stand and defend that which is a lie all to your utter eternal ruin!

          • Gallibus

            Be careful! as you judge, so shall you be judged. I do have a Bible as you might have noticed and I actually read it and have it explained to me by faithful teachers not heretics.

    • Julie

      If people would only study documented Church History. It is apostolic. We don’t go running off following one scrupulous individual or another.

      We have thousands of Protestant sects and denominations who cannot stand one another and have to go to another church down the street that fits their fancy.

      It is not about us, it is about Christ and He did not lead us into babel of churches all claiming to be numero uno.

      The Jews did not believe in Sola Scriptura, there is no where in Scripture that states you follow Sola Scriptura…that was Luther’s.

      Look at what Sola Scriptura has done…hate and division and misunderstandings.

  • Guest

    As a fan of humour, please don’t stop these comments.
    You go christianity, you go girl! lol
    ;8~^ )

    • w1deopen

      Since you such a fan of humor. Enjoy the your future, Hahahaha

  • Catholic4life

    Haereticus!!! Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those
    who outwardly profess it, for in those days Jesus Christ will send them not a true
    Pastor, but a destroyer.” – St. Francis of Assisi

  • fromthemomma

    Harlot church calling her children. People better wake up and smell the deception

    • Julie

      Who is calling us harlots. Disgusting. Look at the people around us living Hollywood values.

    • http://uncontrolledopposition.com/ Keith Kampschaefer

      I have an idea. Let’s prefix the pronoun, ‘holy’ to Roman Empire, declare our conversion to Christianity, and masquerade as a religious institution with the end goal of converting the entire world to Catholicism (universalism). Once completed, we’ll reveal the source of our power at which point humanity will declare, “Who is like us, who can challenge us!?”

      “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?” – Rev 13:4 KJV

      • http://uncontrolledopposition.com/ Keith Kampschaefer

        And the Beast, mighty in war, does what no nation on earth is capable of, and that, without a shot being fired. And so the ‘Latino Invasion’ of the U.S., under the direction of the Vatican’s elite forces, the Jesuits, will do what ships, planes, and troops could not do which is to conquer the North American continent.

        “It is my opinion that if the liberties of this country – the United States of America – are destroyed, it will be by the subtlety of the Roman Catholic Jesuit priests, for they are the most crafty, dangerous enemies to civil and religious liberty. They have instigated MOST of the wars of Europe.” Marquis de LaFayette (1757-1834)

  • elida

    how can bible believing christians who attend these churches still sit in the pulpit and listen to these money grabbing heretics! where is christians discernment! in the last days there will be so much deception that if it was possible, the very elect will be deceived, these is so true, and these people are sell-outs to the true body of Christ and one thing i know, i will not be part of these heretics so help me God!

    • JoyDon

      They are willingly SELF-deceived! Filled with lust for money and want to believe the lies that IF they give their money to these SHARKS, they will get rich like the thieving Sharks are. Water seeks it’s own level, and birds of a feather…… I know very few ministers who do not in one form or another fleece the hapless lustful sheep.

      • Gunny L

        Hapless lustful sheep, hapless lustful “church leaders,” and hapless lustful hypocrites pointing the finger at everyone else, and not examining their own lives.

    • Gallibus

      It is easy to notice the lack of love in these comments – the love that God COMMANDED us to give Him and our neighbor. The one thing that separates us from God is the lack of love; be very careful that not to let one’s own self-righteousness lead to our own condemnation. God wants unity – He has said so clearly and He will not change His mind.

      • maryaha

        I agree that we are to love one another and that God wants unity in His body, the church. But we are never to sacrifice the gospel of Christ for unity or anything else. The Catholic church does not teach the same gospel as was delivered by the apostles of Christ. Paul makes this perfectly clear in Galatians by repeating it in two verses:

        Galatians 1:8
        But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

        Galatians 1:9
        As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

        And the apostle John, even though he is known for writing so much about love, warned us never to accept another gospel:

        2 John 1:10
        If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

        2 John 1:11
        For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

        To me these verses even tell us that we should not watch the programs of these false teachers, as that is the same as receiving them into our house.

        I have no doubt there are Christian people that are in the Catholic church, but I don’t understand why they stay there.

        • Julie

          Seeing your interpretation to use against us…no way will I leave my faith.

          I wish people like yourself would pray and first of all ask the Holy Spirit to deliver you from all the falsehoods taught you.

          I know of a priest who was non denominational…went through hell, personally, to be delivered from so many fears before he was a Catholic and then went on to become a priest.

          We have people coming to us all the time with false concepts and we spend alot of time just getting rid of the lies.

        • Julie

          You are pulling out quotes we follow. So I don’t know what in the world you are implying.

          I think it is the things you are taught not what we actually believe.

          • desiree madden

            Julie,good on you for trying to teach the ignorant! It’s a spiritual act of Mercy! yay you!

        • Gallibus

          Your misconception about and ignorance of the Catholic Church is what is impeding your understanding of why people stay in Jesus’ Church – which is the Church Jesus founded on the rock of Peter and against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail. Clearly, you have bought into the heresy of rebellion of one of the Johnny-come-lately Oh-Ah-God-changed-His-mind churches. You know the Scriptures, especially Galations 1:9; take them to heart and come out of the rebellion and into the Truth. Does God really change His mind – or is that the satanic influence? Take care.

  • Whatsmyname2

    Evangelicals are the biggest phonies out there. They might as well be called Satangelicals.

  • jhmdeuce

    The luncheon of heretics.

  • Whatsmyname2

    AKA Snakeangelicals. A lot of them are filed with the Kundalini and want to lead you to accepting its spirit in your life as well. It really isn’t a joke either. These people babble like they are possessed maniacs, that is Kundalini.

  • Hondo Stone

    Ah yes, the gathering together of devils, bringing in damnable heresies, and dragging all who will follow them to the very pit of hell.

  • mightymouse

    …looking to the near future: I see your Jihad and raise you one Crusade. Christians are going to have to engage in holy war with Islam. They need to unite for that purpose.

    • Julie

      Intelligent and wise answer.

      Actually, though, I believe it will take the entire world of humane and good will to get the resolve to finally wipe out militant Islam, so so cruel that has so many peoples in bondage in the name of God. Blasphemy!

      • mightymouse

        Thank you for the compliment. Ishmael is the Lord’s ‘wild man’…Genesis 16:11 and 12. I believe that only God Himself will be able to effectively deal with Abrahams’ son by Hagar the Egyptian. Until then we will have to fight him. Also Gen. 17:20

    • James Staten

      This is a short version, but Muhammad had a daughter named Fatima. Tie in the illusion of Mary at Fatima and the fact that Muslims also have a rosary, sounds like the makings for an End Time…Christless Church!!!

      • mightymouse

        …and the Muslim IS ‘Christ-less’. They acknowledge Jesus as a prophet yet deny that He is the Son of God. But then, they do not worship the God of their father Abraham. Their god Allah is a moon rock deity from Arabia. I have sometimes wondered if the ‘angel of the Lord’ that appeared to Hagar was in reality an emissary of Satan.

        • James Staten

          mightymouse…My understanding is that anytime you have the LORD written as such, it is a preincarnate Christ, and that appears to be the case here?

        • Keith

          The Hebrew is YHWH-Strongs H3068. Satan is Strongs H7854.

          The KJV English translates YHWH as “Lord” the Hebrew is read from right to left and looks like this:

          יְהֹוָה

          • Keith

            Satan looks like this in Hebrew:
            שָׂטָן

  • abbygirl08

    There is a HUGE difference between loving and helping your neighbor and adopting their heresies.

    • Julie

      sorry, but yours is the heretic. You don’t have charity. That is because your belief system in Christ is not based on the truth of Christ.

      Christ never handed bibles out, because He is the living God, and not reduced to words on print.

      • abbygirl08

        You are correct that Jesus is the Word made flesh! He is the living God. He never handed out copies of the Tanakh because He WAS/IS the WORD. And the majority of those He preached to were already familiar with it. But He had a lot to say about doctrine. And most of it hinged on salvation. He called us evil. Do you recall? Just one of many examples:

        “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
        how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good
        to those who ask Him!” (Matthew 7:11)

        If you study the NT, you will realize that the gift of salvation has nothing to do with works as the RCC teaches, but purely grace. And, I might add that you don’t have the slightest idea how or what I give to charity, so don’t assume.

        • Julie

          If you study Scripture, and it depends on what bible interpretation you are using, yours should include the Gospels when Jesus speaks of the Last Judgement…I was hungry, naked, imprisoned, etc. and you did not feed me, clothe Me, or visit Me…that are works of a living faith that is echoed by the apostles and also the Letter of St. James.

          What I am addressing in your lack of charity is the desire to denounce Christ’s Church based on the spin false teachers indoctrinate you with, instead of finding the truth of what the Church actually teaches and practices.

          So many are entering the Church now because they are seeing how they were lied to. People who use Christianity to bear false witness against others are guilty of mortal sin in bearing false witness.

          So that is my regard for your stand.

          As for as the Bible goes, do you know it is the Catholic Church that put the Bible together?

          Do you know we follow the Septuagint Tradition of interpretation that goes back 200 years before Christ??? And that this tradition is called the Lord’s, the one used likewise by the Apostles and St. Paul, the tradition that foresaw the coming of Christ????

          Ancient Egyptian emperor Ptolemy wanted to build the greatest library in the world. He realized different interpretations of Sacred Scripture. He called forth 70 rabbis from Israel to come to Egypt and compose the entire works of Scripture. He had them all separated and forbade any communication among them. When they completed their work, all were compared, and the miracle of the Holy Spirit was manifested. Every page, every phrase, every word, every event was identical word by word among all 70 rabbis.

          This is communion of belief is the work of the Holy Spirit.

          The Septuagint is likewise called the LXX version.

          Martin Luther wanted to reform the Church. He changed a preposition which the apostles warned us about, Peter in 2 Letter warning believers not to fall into personal interpretation but to stay faithful to the tradition of faith as they were chosen witnesses to the Lord.

          Martin had good intentions and wanted a pure version and so he went back to the Hebrew, the Masoretic text. This interpretation of Scripture was done 200 years after Christ by rabbis who did not accept Christ. When they assembled together, there was much dissension and disunity.

          At the Council of Trent following the disintegration of Protestant denominations all following Sola Scriptura using the Masoretic text…and many changing words and phrases to fit their biases … man made interpretations, the Council of Trent reaffirmed the Septuagint Tradition, the Apocraphyl books removed by Luther.

          Luther had no qualms about removing books of Scripture. and that is pretty daring for one man to think he is theone now who has things right. He was a highly scrupulous person who had very punitive parents and so grew up not experiencing Christ’s love.

          There are countless believers before Luther who experienced great love of the Lord in the Catholic Church and still do.

          Interestingly, the mainline Protestant denominations use the same readings for the liturgical year.

          And if you were go to go to daily Mass for 3 years, you would have heard the entire Bible.

          It is the Mass where we consume the Lord, where He breaks open His Word so it is understood and leads us to Christian charity and communion.

          • abbygirl08

            I must confess, I’m personally ignorant of Catholic doctrine and teachings. And I’ve long since given up on many Protestant teachers as well. I DO know however, that family members of mine have been abused and humiliated by the RCC before coming to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. So in that way (ironically), they have served a purpose. They drove my family members straight into the arms of the Lord. Praise God!

            Peace.

          • Julie

            I am sorry about your family member. There were many in the Church in the last century….it all was coming out in public in the last decade…of those who entered the priesthood or religious life who did not have vocations.

            All forms of abuse are not the work of Christ.

            I just read of a Columbian Cardinal Hoyo head of the clergy in Rome who did not take action on abusive priests. It was then Cardinal Ratzinger who literally took over, and took cases over to the Congregation of faith. When he became pope, he was removing a bishop a month…I think of Rev 12 and 1/3 of the stars (consecrated souls to God) following to the ground by the tail of the dragon…not the ferocious head…but the allures of the world and human respect. The bishop is successor to the apostle. My dad said the American bishops did not have leadership. American and Canadian seminaries were infiltrated by communists in the 1930′s…and working to have human psychology be the discerner and not the Holy Spirit. Carl Jung, psychologist, admitted he was responsible for the loss of faith by Immaculate Heart nuns in LA with his sensitivity sessions in allowing the sisters to come to their ‘real’ self. When we die to ourselves to the Lord, He makes us new and we are more our true selves in the Lord than before.

            I was personally hit by a woman involved in goat horns and none of the priests except the archdiocesan exorcist…he telling me she was using goat horns. About so many years later a man came was forwarded to me asking if anyone had dealings with this woman…who deceived priests and a bishop and was a clairvoyant…and said he heard police were sent to her home because she was sacrificing animals. They could do nothing because she was using domestic animals…goats. So yes, I hated the Church for a short while but hung in there.

            The focus of the Catholic is Jesus Christ and when we trust others too much, faithful priests who were not trained in such matters in the latter part of the 70′s and on ward about the work of the devil…we can all fall and lose faith.

            Be careful of claiming to be saved…because we must endure in the Cross to the very last day and the Evil One comes at the hour of death to tempt us to lose faith in Christ’s mercy.

          • Ken Faivor

            Errrr………..I know about goat horns, grab them like handlebars, twist, trip the legs and they’re down. Hope that helps…………Errr what?

          • Julie

            Exorcism. But nothing can really be done until the person finally admits to it.

          • Julie

            We have great devotion to the Incarnation.

        • James Staten

          Amen

      • One Icon

        Julie, Christ is the Son of God, he never claimed to be the living God. That title is reserved only for the Father. Christ is the begotten Son and the Father has imparted to Him all things. Furthermore, the Catholic ideology of Christ being co-eternal and co-equal is not scriptural, but is a doctrine of men.

        • Julie

          Jesus is not dead. He is the Living God.

          Christians have believed in 3 persons in one God…The Council of Nicea clarified that Christ is of the same substance as the Father. If not, Christianity could have fallen back into multiple gods and then paganism.

          • One Icon

            You answered your own question of the Trinity, it is multiple gods which is polytheism. Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. The Spirit of God, is the Spirit of the Father and Christ, they are one Spirit. Ephesian 4:4-6
            But Christ is begotten of the Father. That is what the scriptures teach. That is why Jesus said I can do nothing of myself but what I see my Father do. The Father imparted all power and glory unto His Son, Christ Jesus.

          • Gallibus

            Christ was ‘begotten’ not made – He was not created by the Father but was with God from the beginning. (Biblical)

          • H2o2Bill

            Could you please explain some more for future discussions I might have with you? Could you give a explanation of what John 1:1 is teaching us?

          • One Icon

            Hi Bill. Christ as the Word as always been apart of the Father for all eternity. This is why the Word was with God – God is a reference here to the Father. The Word was God shows us that Christ and the Father are of the same Spirit. Paul says this in Eph 4:4-6 At some point before all things, Christ became begotten and was the Son of God begotten as we see in the scriptures. Many times Jesus said He was here to do the will of the Father, hence that the Father has all authority but has imparted that authority to Christ is only begotten Son. I myself until a short time ago, did not understand the relationship properly between the Father and Son. This is where so much error has crept in. People are not seeing that Jesus said He and the Father would come into his children, that is done by the Spirit. The Spirit of the (God) Father and the Spirit of Christ are the same Spirit. Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father, but by the Spirit, Christ and the Father are with us, comforting us, guiding us into all truth. This my brother is what the Lord has opened my eyes to. This is why the teaching of the trinity is not mentioned in the bible. It is a doctrine of men which is satan’s way of taking away the authority of Christ and that He is begotten of the Father. Once I destroyed the trinity alter in my mind I was able to grasp the awesome relationship between the Father and the Son and how they are One by the Spirit (Holy Spirit)
            Message me again Bill. I’m 44 and only now after 20 years of seeking the Lord, has he started to open my eyes. It took lots of painful, sorrowful trials, for my heart to opened to hear the Lords truths.

          • H2o2Bill

            I think I understand where you are coming from. The terminology of the Trinity does not bother me. I think the problem comes in by our limited ability to understand the deep things concerning the living God of heaven. We also have Psalm 2 and Psalms 2 quoted in the Book of Hebrews. I think your getting hung up on the terminology used to describe something we have not words for. As long as you believe that Christ is God manifested in the flesh I won’t disown you (break fellowship). Have you ever noticed the below verses?

            Isa 42:1 “Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

            (Isa 48:15-17) “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. “Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.” Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, “I am the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit, Who leads you in the way you should go.

            You might want to look into this one I have searched for something like this for a long time. Then I find Eric Ludy and finally I have some much better understanding of this subject.

            http://ellerslie.com/sermons/eric-ludy/12-15-13/the-unspeakable-name

          • One Icon

            Thanks Bill, appreciate your comment.

          • One Icon

            Council of Nicea is another doctrine of man.

        • Instigator

          Jesus Christ is God. Study His Word and you will find it there.

    • One Icon

      Abby, I find that Julie is typical of one of the delusions that exist today. They want to think that the Pope is a nice guy but fail to realize that siding with the Papacy is unifying with all its false doctrines. Furthermore the Papacy denies the fact that Christ is the begotten Son of the Father.

      • Julie

        Another false remark.
        My Baptist roommate thought that the pope was all good and went to heaven. All popes are human beings and can fail and we have documents that state those who failed.

        I don’t know where in the world you get such ideas about what the pope denies…another falsehood.

        Have you ever seen the Nicene Creed? We profess that at every Sunday Mass. We pray the Apostles Creed during week day Masses.

        It is so sad to see fellow Christians believe all this stuff.

        • One Icon

          Sunday mass also finds its roots in sun worship. It is not the biblical Sabbath Julie.

          • Julie

            What denomination is teaching you that. Sorry, it is a very very wrong and very bad thing. You sound like SDA. Did you see my post at beginning…..www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/refute7a.htm.

            You have to go back to early Christianity to find the truth.

            The Jews celebrate the Sabbath. The universal Christian Church first met on Saturdays late at night. The Gentile Christians moved to early Sunday am, Resurrection Sunday, called the 8th day, the Lord’s Day.

            Yes, Jews celebrate the Sabbath. Christians celebrate the Lord’s Day. Remember the Lord Jesus fulfills Judaism.

            Read the description of the Mass by St. Justin the Martyr, around 154 AD. It has nothing to do with paganism but everything to do with the Lord and the practice of worship He gave us at the Last Supper.

            History stands by the Church.

            The effect of the Resurrection is that the Lord lifts us up in life and the Lord lives perpetually present to us. The Passion of Jesus, St. John’s Gospel, and the epistles of the Hebrews dont just refer to the Passover. They interpret it in light of the ritual of the Day of Atonement celebrated on the 10th day of the 7th month, Sept to Oct., in the Passover of Jesus a coincidence of Easter spring, and the Day of Atonement, autumn. Depending on how late or early Easter fell, the time of new life to death when Christ came among us.

            Sunday is the very essential and first date of Christianity.

            Already in the New Testament Christians look back from the Easter mystery to the Incarnation of Christ from the Virgin Mary….the feast of the Epiphany emerged in the east on January 6 and the feast of Christmas in the West on December 25. Both have different emphases…but their meaning was the same: celebration of the birth of Christ as the dawning of the new light, the true sun, of history.

            The starting point for dating the birth of Christ is March 25. In tradition, Christ suffered death on March 25. …According to the account of of creation in Genesis 1, the sun was created on the fourth day, that is March 28….old myths stating the Christian response to sun cults promoted by Roman emperors in the third century.

            In reality, the decisive factor was the connection of creation and cross,of creation and Christ’s conception. The cosmos was now thought of as the pre-annuncation of Christ, the Firstborn of creation, Col 1:15. It is he of whom creation speaks, and it is by him that its mute message is deciphered. The cosmos finds its true meaning in the First born of creation, who has now entered history. From him comes the assurance that the adventure of creation, of a world with its own free existence distinct from God does not end up in absurdity and tragedy, but…remains something positive. God’s blessing on the seventh day is truly and definitely confirmed. The fact that the dates of the Lord’s conception and birth originally had a cosmic significance means that Christians can take on the challenge of the sun cult and incorporate it positively into the theology of the Christmas feast.

            Likewise St. Augustine preaching to his flock in Hippo, ‘Brethren let us rejoice. The heathen,too, may still make merry, for this day consecrates for us, not the visible sun but the sun’s invisible Creator’.

            For all intent and purposes, I greatly had to withhold a number of insights.

            You have to study the liturgical year going back to how it was originally practiced and celebrated within Judaism. The Jews have the Passover as their Memorial. Christians have the Mass now in the new life of Christ, and recalling His life, death on the Cross and the Resurrection of new life, all things are made new, beginning on Resurrection Sunday.

          • Instigator

            The Hebrews observed the solar calendar. The RCC observes a solar calendar in their Mithraic tradition. All that observe the Sunday Sabbath reveal their roots are of their Mother Church in Rome.

    • Gunny L

      Oh Abby, you and you black and white (now remember, I’m just being facetious).

  • frankfan42

    Be not deceived. We all need to examine our own hearts that we are clinging to the eternal Christ and not the fleshly “Church” of this world. Pray for discernment to see His truth.

    • Julie

      Jesus is the Incarnated Word. It is through Jesus Christ that the world was given flesh, was given form, weights and measure.

      Jesus is so big, my friend, He entrusted His Church to weak men. Peter was the worst example of faith in the Gospels and it is Peter to whom Christ made head of His Church.

      If people would only study the truth of Catholicism, they would find out that the succession of Peter has never been broken. I remember reading about a Protestant academic who spent 27 years trying to prove the Church wrong and he realized it was in the truth.

      The 20th century is the worst.

      Likewise we live in a sex saturated culture, our country the number one agent promoting abortion, contraception, now gay marriage throughout the world and people here dress so immodestly, so little respect and value for the sanctity and permanency of marriage. The Catholic Church has not changed its teachings on the sanctity of God and human beings.

      Seek the truth. Pray to find the truth.

      Do you know it is the English who literally made up spins about the Catholics, and continue to write the most vile things about our faith? Do you know the Church is comprised of human beings, with our eyes wide open to its own sins, we pray for those who cause scandals….and it hurts me very very deeply to see Christians hold on to such falsehoods to our faith that is meant for all who believe in Christ.

      • Julie

        Likewise if you believe in an invisible church, then it is the same problem as we see with the bible…people all splitting up over different interpretations.

      • frankfan42

        My friend, to you the “Church” means the Roman Catholic Church, correct? To me the “Church” also contains all the various Protestant denominations as well. We are to be true to Christ.

        • Julie

          Why are you not attacking the Orthodox Church?

          The Church is visible, our unity visible.

          The Protestants are separated brethren within the Mystical Body of Christ but do not partake at the Banquet Table and separate from us.

          If you separate from us, then how can you know us and be in communion with us?

          The very first vocation of a Catholic is to enter into the life of the Holy Trinity….not denigrate others.

          • frankfan42

            Julie, what I am decrying is ANY Earthly Church which professes faith in Christ, while turning from those teachings. Whether RCC, Protestant is immaterial to me.

          • Instigator

            ALL the Churches teach false doctrines. They are not THE CHURCH. There is no Trinity. That is Nicene Creed nonsense. Peter and Paul would have no part of such deception.

        • Gallibus

          Can one belong to Christ’s Church and yet dispute or protest against His teachings? ‘I really want to belong but I don’t want to conform’ is what is really being said. Choose Christ since He has the wisdom – we are amateurs at best.

          • frankfan42

            I like how you phrase the statement, can one belong to Christ’s Church and yet dispute or protest against His teachings? It is done all the time in the secular world, and even in organized Churches. This is why it is vital to Choose Christ and lean not unto our own, or the understanding of our brethren.

          • Instigator

            Yes, choose Christ, not the institutions of men.

  • Magnus

    We must stand united against satan’s plans to make the world accept the abomination of homosexuality and abortion and to deny religious freedom. Satan wants Christians fighting each other instead of fighting his satanic plans. We must not let pettiness stand between Christians when there are truly diabolical forces at work in the world. Jesus Himself said: “In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” John 14:2

    • dpharisee2010

      IN SUCH A TIME AS THIS, ITS A GIVEN. WE SHOULD instead of making the work or the mission of the pope satanic as you can read in some of the comments here. Saint Michael the Archangel defend us from battle, be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.

  • maryaha

    Without a doubt, the timing of this little get together is not by accident. It was just a few weeks ago that the Pope met with Jews and Muslims in a show of “unity”…now they have to unify them with the Christians. Considering the lack of discernment in Christian churches today, there won’t be any problems bringing about this unity. Just look how Chrislam has been accepted now! Once this “unification” takes place, there will be no room left for true Christianity’s “hateful, unloving” doctrine of Christ.

    • Julie

      There you go…judging by appearances. The pope was deliberately misquoted by an Italian atheist journalist last year who came in with no taping. Later he apologized for what he had done.
      The pope upholds all teachings and is not a liberal. What he is doing is to find common ground and common humanity of people of good will who oppose using religion to murder and hate other people.

      Too bad he didn’t have the Evangelicals there who are active in Israel.

      • One Icon

        Are you for real Julie. The little horn of Daniel is the Papacy. Anyone who is upholding the pope is siding with all the false doctrines and lies that come forth from it. Realizing this, you will be able to see that the Papacy gets all its power from the Dragon (satan). Any support of it, no matter how good it looks is a unification with the light bearer (Lucifer). The Papacy is filled with Babylonian sun worship, and every pagan symbol is plastered on its walls including the scepter of the Pope. This is why the scripture says, come out of Babylon and be not a partaker of her sins.

        • Julie

          That is another spin…and also the thing about the sun, etc.

          If you would only seek the truth…go to ‘Catholic in the Ozark’ and see if you can find the column on misconceptions about Catholics…Shane is a former Evangelical.

          I don’t have time now…but the first great feast of the Church has been Easter. But the greatest feastday is ordinary Resurrection Sunday.

          No the feasts of Easter and Christmas coincide with the Jewish calendar feasts…It is looking like the Incarnation is indeed March 25, Christ’s birth some time in late December, and the Resurrection is now academically set at April 6 or 9th. I would have to go back.

          Christ chose the time he wanted to be born…Abraham was about to sacrifice his son Isaac when the angel appeared to him and pointed to a ram stuck in a bush and he was instructed to sacrifice the ram instead of his son.

          Christ was born during the Constellation of Aries, the Ram….and Christ became the Paschal Lamb.

          The Church changes Easter Sunday depending on solar/sun cycles in deference to the Jewish Passover. The Jewish cycle changes every 19 years.

          Anyway, I can write it out for you later this pm….there is so much pagan inserted junk into Catholicism.

          The papacy is also the Bishop of Rome. We had only the title bishop of Rome until later when the Church became so large and complex with so many different peoples and cultures. The papacy is the sign of unity and communion among believers, and the pope must only draw on the faith given to us and passed down.

          Babylon was also the name given to ancient Israel when it was in sin.

          Actually there is alot more sin in Babylon America than among Catholics.

          • One Icon

            Do you pray to the Holy Spirit?

          • Julie

            Do you seek the Lord and His truth in the Holy Spirit or defile the Holy Spirit by believing in lies?

            The Holy Spirit is not the author of lies.

            Do you know that this type of anti Catholicism is primarily an American creation???? That most who hold such ideas like yours are English speaking people?

            Do you see the judgment that is coming on our country???

          • One Icon

            I asked that because the Pope prays to the Holy Spirit, and that is not scriptural. By that very act he is praying to another god, therefore by default that prayer goes to Satan and no one else. It really is that simple.

          • desiree madden

            This is the ignorant mind set I bring up.Really???? If Christ left us HIS SPIRIT than who are you praying to? Peace

          • PGMGN

            Do you believe in the Trinity?

          • Gallibus

            The Holy Spirit is God – third person of the Holy Trinity.

          • Instigator

            The Trinity is a lie.

          • Instigator

            Not just this country. It is beginning with those who say they are His no matter where they are. They are to be tried just as it has always been. The RCC will play a major role in this. The RCC is not Christ’s; it is of Satan.

          • One Icon

            I’m sorry Julie, but you have been blinded by the traditions of men.

          • Julie

            sorry you follow man made Christianity that is laden with falsehoods and division.

          • desiree madden

            And you forget what the last few sentences of JOHN state.Peace

          • Instigator

            It is the RCC that set up the pagan holy days here in America. They are known as Easter, Halloween, Christmas, etc. A true follower of Christ would never observe or celebrate them.

        • dpharisee2010

          O Prince of the heavenly hosts, by the POWER of GOD, be our defense against the wickedness and nares of the Devil who follows the pope. It is right here. Read what it comments. Rebuke Satan, thrust into hell Satan, all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruins of souls, AMEN

        • Julie

          Just like the Church is on 7 hills in Rome, when in fact the Vatican is not on 7 hills but flat across the Tiber. Let me see…Jerusalem is on 7 hills, so is athens, and Seattle, WA. I saw a guy write out a list of cities with 7 hills and it was pretty long.

          You are really obsessed with sun worship and honestly…I don’t see it in the Catholic Church nor was it practiced in ancient times.

          The spirit of the Mass, its parts and tones are the same as that almost 2000 years ago.

          If only you people would get off your high horse and get educated.

          • Instigator

            How can you be so sure since you are completely saturated with the doctrines of men?

        • Gallibus

          Clearly it is the dragon who wants you to believe that.

          • Instigator

            Do your own study outside of Catholicism and it writings. Catholics, Mormons, JWs, etc. all believe lies.

      • maryaha

        Jesus did not come here to suffer and die on the cross in order “to find common ground and common humanity of people of good will…”. He came to seek and to save the lost. He died in my place, He took all of my sins upon Himself and in exchange He imputed to me His righteousness. Jesus did not come to make bad men good, He came to make dead men live!

        • abbygirl08

          AMEN! “He who has the Son has LIFE!”

        • Gallibus

          It is the evil ones who are spiritually dead – He definitely wants them to come back to life by repenting and living a good life – so therefore the bad will become good. Your argument is ridiculous.

          • Instigator

            Your understanding of spiritual discernment is lacking.

  • Julie

    People should do a search and read the Letter of St. Francis to Catholics written in 1221. In Luke it is stated, to do penance for the remission of sin, lest you likewise perish!

    Our Lord loved Holy Poverty as did His Mother Mary. He was born in a stable. He did not stand out, a man of sufferings.

  • adam hordos

    I wonder who will bring back the five hundred million baptized Catholics through out the world who do not practice their faith. Dear holy Father, concentrate on your flock before were worry about the so called “Protesters” who receive the same graces from Jesus as you and me. They made a choice. They would like to come in the back door of our holy Church for one purpose and that is to get rid of the Blessed Mother. They chose not to listen to Jesus last words on earth. Son here is your Mother, Mother here is your son “.Blessed are you God of all creation that we have your mother to behold.”

    • One Icon

      Veneration of Mary is idolatry.

      • Julie

        Do you know what Catholic worship is? If you did, you would not be making such claims.
        Idolatry is making a creature god.

        There is a word for those who misrepresent others. It is sin.

        • desiree madden

          Julie,here we find the usual mish-mash of people ignorant to what THE CHURCH teaches and stubbornly refusing to even listen,I believe CHRIST called that ” stiff necked”. Also,the Evangelical part of protestant groupings are the most likely to listen to TRUTH because they are completely yielded to the HOLY SPIRIT.GOD BE PRAISED !

          • PGMGN

            One must be discerning of Spirits, however, Desiree. Innocent as doves, but wise as serpents. Not all spirits are holy. Confusion abounds without sound doctrine for even St. Paul warned that the demon could disguise himself as an angel of light. In other words: all that moves you is not necessarily good.

      • desiree madden

        Your statement is indicative of your lack of knowledge and wisdom.Merriam-Webster defines “venerate” as

        1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
        2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
        Last I checked Scripture specifically says in Luke chapter 1 “…Because He has regarded the lowliness of His handmaid;

        For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed;

        Because He who is mighty has done great things for me,…” thus Catholics worldwide honor the Mother of Jesus just as HE did and still does!We do not worship her or any other creature.I can add more clarity to your clouded understanding if you would like any further assistance.Peace

        • One Icon

          Thank you sister for informing me of my clouded understanding.
          2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion as you stated, is my point exactly. Countless catholics pray to statues Mary and that is idolatry. Same as kissing the feet of Peter, which is really a statue of Jupiter.
          Why would you defend that I do not understand? Yes Mary was the mother of Jesus, chosen by God. She is just a person who had a fallen nature like us all.

          • desiree madden

            To be devoted to a creature is no form of idolatry or else your or my honor for our natural born parents would be idolatrous too or our love or respect for our siblings.Have you never ever kissed the hand or cheek of a person? I’m sorry and mean no disrespect to your intelligence but your understanding is incorrect if not clouded.Ignorant is the best description I have.Also we don’t pray to statues we pray to the living citizenry of Heaven… “a great cloud of witnesses” as I recall the book of Hebrews identifies.Statuary and icons are images that help elevate our mental ability to contemplate higher realities.Catholics do not worship these objects.Again I mean no ill will or disrespect to you but way too many people continue to voice their opinions and comments on subject matter they are ignorant about.I am more than willing to engage your questions and help your knowledge base.Peace

          • t. mess

            those “statuary & icons” are graven images

          • Gallibus

            Then so are busts and statues of famous people. Demolish them – according to your way of thinking.

          • t. mess

            got my vote… good for nothing anyway,,, we have books.

          • Julie

            I see the Watch Tower laying on chairs at the Catholic hospital. I think they must be in angst when they cannot use a picture idolizing Mary or showing a scandal some where or just teaching more junk Catholics don’t even believe in.

          • Gallibus

            You never kissed a photo of an absent loved one? Was that idolatry?

          • Instigator

            I don’t worship them.

      • Gallibus

        Contradiction in terms! No wonder you battle to understand.

        • Instigator

          You suffer from cognitive dissonance.
          Most Churches in the U.S. are 501c3 Churches and are thereby idolatrous. Signing those corporate 501c3 documents means that such a Church acknowledges the secular state as their creator.

    • James Staten

      William Tyndale…”I defy the Pope, and all his laws; and if God spare my life , ere many years, I will cause the plowboy to know more of the scriptures than thou dost”. Nothing new under the sun? Let’s see the Pope believes that you don’t have to believe in God to go to Heaven. Recent article that atheist can go to Heaven with a good conscience. Also the scriptures tell us that the traditions of men make void the word of God!!! Last but not least I find it interesting that in the Hebrew the name Mary is Miriam, and one of the definitions is “Rebel”…Please check a good dictionary for it is there? The interesting thing is that her name means Rebel, and that even Mary needs a Savior. For we are all in rebellion. This is the Gospel 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

      • Julie

        The pope can only draw on the deposit of faith.

        Dogmas of Mary were not developed until reflection of 1800 years of faith.

        • James Staten

          Please show me that in the scriptures? Also you might go down a few comments and read what I wrote about Mary and Fatima.

      • Robert Bbb

        Tyndale who was under King Henry and broke from Rome because he wanted a divorce and the pope was against it, that is rebellion. Pope said that all even atheist are redeemed; Jesus did pay the price for all to be saved.
        Virgin Mary in difficulties and all throughout her life said yes to the will of God without rebellion. Catholicism mentions that she did need a savior, Jesus. Read a catholic book for correct understanding instead of believing lies.

        • James Staten

          I’m sure your history lesson is totally correct, but it really is a mute point!!!! The Gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and that’s not Protestant or Catholic

        • James Staten

          Oh, I forgot to tell you I graduated from a Catholic College does that count?

          • PGMGN

            In light of the putrescence rife in ‘Catholic’ Colleges, yes indeed, your mention of having graduated from just such a place explains a lot!

          • James Staten

            Thank You

          • Julie

            The american Church has much dissension. You have to go to a truly Catholic university and they are reemerging.

          • Gallibus

            Apparently not – the penny never dropped.

          • James Staten

            Gallibus, If you don’t know by now let me inform you? You do not go to Heaven because you are Catholic, Methodist, Baptist or whatever? Every Catholic I have almost ever met is biblically illiterate. If there is any discussion about the Bible, “Oh, That doesn’t matter I’m Catholic”. The only way for anyone to go to Heaven is through the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and if your Pope is correct that atheist can go to Heaven because of their conscience, then Christ’s death was in Vain. All the pain and suffering was for nothing, why die? The truth is just like my original comment about Tyndale and the Pope. It was true then and true now. He is either a deceiver or he is biblically ignorant. The scriptures speak often about conscience? As I said yesterday the scriptures tell us Peter eventually came to the point where he understand that the Lord was using the Apostle Paul, and that Paul’s writings were hard to be understand (his words), but listen to Paul. Paul wrote half the NT. You get doctrine from Paul, but one would only know that if they read him? This is the Gospel 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and Paul tells us everyman will be judged one day by “My Gospel”…So men will stand in one of two places one day…The Bema Seat Judgment or the Great White Throne Judgment, and being a Catholic or having your Penny will not help you!!! Ignorance is not bliss…Hope this helps…James

          • Gallibus

            Yes, it is true that many lay Catholics are not terribly up to chapter and verse of the Bible but if they have learned their Catechism then they understand the essential points of Christianity. I sometimes wonder whether it is better to be less scholarly concerning the Scriptures or to be misinformed and in error. Neither option seems very smart. And, in between now and the Last Judgement comes the personal judgement and personal purification.
            Even an atheist can repent and go to heaven if he wakes up in time; I suspect that the Pope was misquoted by someone wishing that the statement would be true.

          • James Staten

            Gallibus, we are lost and we need a Savior. I just posted a long statement in the last minute and I addressed some of the issues which I believe are at the heart of the problem. May the Lord Jesus Christ…Bless You…James

          • Gallibus

            Thank you and may He bless you too. Thank God He si coming again very soon.

          • James Staten

            “Even So Come Lord Jesus” from our lips to His ears!!!!

          • Instigator

            Holy crap, Batman! That is so antichrist!

      • dpharisee2010

        That is just pure HATRED/JEALOUSY which does not belong to the teaching of JESUS. HATRED/JEALOUSY is always, always associated and very characteristics of Satan. U quote a lot of scriptures here. First, who do YOU think own the bible?. Who even made the table of contents?. Who had reviewed, research what epistle, what writings goes into the bible?. I would not and I do not pay attention to what the pope says in just passing anyway but, but if he sits on his Peters chair and start to make an announcement or declare a dogma then maybe I will stop to listen, analyze what he is talking about. So far that did not happen only 2 times in 2014 years I believe.

        • James Staten

          What is Peter’s Chair? Please don’t let the facts or scripture sway you? If you read the scriptures toward the end of his life Peter said that Paul’s writings where hard to understand, but listen to Paul. Since Paul wrote half the NT I listen to Paul. Paul said, “Follow me as I follow Christ”…Ignorance is not bliss!!!

          • Julie

            What happened after the apostles died?

          • James Staten

            Julie, I have replied to you, but I supplied a link and Trunews has to approve it? So we will see? James

          • Instigator

            Apparently, many here, have not come to understand the lessons and examples of Israel throughout the OT.

      • Julie

        Isn’t Tyndale the one who rewrote Sacred Scripture, deviating from the Apostles?

    • Julie

      The communists who entered American and Canadian seminaries worked to protestantize our faith and to take the salt out of true religion. For real.

      People are pulled into the world, just as many protestants are.

      There are many conversions and return to the faith. You just won’t find them on sites like this.

      • James Staten

        Julie, Since you chose to reply to one of my comments, then I will respond to one of yours? The Book of James is the only place that I am aware that religion is even mentioned in a good light? It says that perfect religion takes care of widows and orphans. The remainder of the time religion is man’s attempt to reach up to God. Christianity is a Relationship, and not a religion. God reached down to man. He became one of us. He wants a relationship and that is only accomplished through the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing more can be said other than the Apostle Paul wrote half the New Testament, and he gives the definition of the Gospel and it is real simple even a child can understand it…1 Corinthians 15:1-4

        • Julie

          And since when is the Church not caring for widows and orphans?

          People here do not realize it is the Church that began hospitals, hospices, who provided education all the way up to higher levels for ordinary people. There were no universities until the Church started them. After the Reformation, there came about Protestant universities. Before that schools for the elite.

          Religion define what kind of relationship, defines one’s beliefs and practice. There is the spin out there….I am spiritual but not religious.

          • Instigator

            All those fleshly things drive us further away from the Lord.

      • PGMGN

        What you say is true, Julie, and yet what Adam says is also true as the very same infiltrators you speak of are those who wish to dismiss Our Blessed Mother as somehow inconsequential.

        She is not.

      • Instigator

        In God’s eyes, there is no strength in numbers. Noah and others will testify of that.

    • Gallibus

      And yet God loves all – just as much as He loves you. We are all His children and He died for each one of us even the impious. He grieves when His children forsake Him and wants all to be saved but He does not force us to love and obey Him.

      • Instigator

        God loves all? That what the Bible says? Think not.

    • Instigator

      The blessed mother – Semiramis, known to the RCC as Mary.

  • Tom york

    It was Poly-carp at the Nicene Council of 325 A.D. That said this–Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone. Poor diluted Christians of today. Ephraim is joined to idols again:.

    • Julie

      Polycarp was a student of a teacher who was taught by St. John the Evangelist.

      There are evangelicals who think Emperor Constantine started the Roman Catholic Church when he wasn’t a baptized Christian until days before his death.

      It goes on and on and on.

      • Tom york

        The absolute only thing constantine did was put up a temple on one church. And thats it. He was not even a Christian. He helped unite the Dragon with the false prophet which came later called a Pope.
        Look into your church ages – Rev. 2 and 3 – you will find where Satan got his seat of authority. And also the Nicolatians along with Balaams false teacings. Its all in the History of the church’s. History is 20/20. If only the church today would do their home work.

    • Robert Bbb

      Does that mean you agree with the Nicene Creed ?
      What do writtings say of Poly-carp.
      “[T]his is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrneans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John, like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter” (Demurrer Against the Heretics 32:2 [ A.D. 200 ]).

      • Tom york

        I understand what you are saying and agree. Yet its the Holy Ghost that said to Paul and Barnabas to separate. Not some council somewhere built upon pagan ideas. Hope you understand.

    • Instigator

      The Nicene Creed is of Satan. Lies, lies, and damnable lies.

      • Tom york

        You need to read the Bible “instigator”. What do you not understand about the “Religion of Israel and Rome uniting to kill Jesus Christ”.

        Its plain in the bible. That does not mean that every Jew and or Roman was privy to it. Pilate did not want to crucify Christ and the common people of Israel did not want to crucify Christ. Why did they let it happen. FEAR that’s why. Pilate would have lost his power and the common Jews would have been excommunicated from the Church and then could not even get help for a job or eat and buy and sell. And they would have had to move out of Jerusalem. Its in the bible and history books. Its coming to America as well it looks like. Hope I’m wrong

  • http://www.my90forlife.com/SowerofSeed Van Stephen ThomastheSower

    interestimg

  • Kristin K.

    Scripture states God judges you by your heart.

    • Gunny L

      Now Kristin, don’t start making sense.

  • desiree madden

    Does anyone here commenting see this as a good thing besides me?

    • One Icon

      Sister, if you understand Daniel 7 and Revelation 17, this is not a good thing. I mean that with all sincerity of truth and love.

    • Robert Bbb

      Many prefer divisions and their negative ways, not completely seeking the ways of God.

      • Tom york

        Bro. Bob – I replied to you message it is up at the top now. Under Tom York

    • Instigator

      It is the culmination of strong delusion. The dog returning to its vomit.

  • Guest

    And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

    Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.

    17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

  • barbara frieseman

    And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

    Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.

    17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

    I am a former Catholic

    • desiree madden

      The clean is JESUS’ perfect offering on all the alters around the entire world in the un-bloody sacrifice of the Mass at this and every minute 24/7 TO GOD BE THE GLORY!Peace

    • PGMGN

      Once a Catholic always a Catholic, Barbara. I’m sorry, however, that your experiences scandalized you away from the the One True Church.

      • James Staten

        PGMGN…Truthfully, you have eaten the whole megillah, haven’t you?

        • PGMGN

          I have the Faith, yes, James. And that is no thanks to the “Catholic” schools I attended. Thanks for asking.

      • Instigator

        There is no true Church. No capital C in the Bible.

        • PGMGN

          …and the fool said there is no God.

          Keep instigating, Instigator. You provide fertile ground for solid Catholics to fight for the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church to our eternal merit. God bless you!

    • Gallibus

      Alas for you.

  • dpharisee2010

    2017 marks 500 years when the protesters against the catholic church tries to reform the church. WHAT FRUITS? What was REFORMED. WHATwas the fruit of JOHN 17. BE HOLY AS I AM HOLY. Where is this great command of JESUS applied here?

    • S Michael Hauserman

      and 2018 marks 70 years (one generation Biblically) since the formation of Israel as a nation. 2018 is going to be a pivotal year for the body of Christ!

      • Instigator

        It is the judgment of the nation of the ungodly nation of Israel.

  • PGMGN

    No misunderstanding, Jim. That said, I’ll take the explanation that that was in force for 1500 years.

  • edwahzj_one

    There is only one reason for the LORD’S TABLE and that is to show the LORD’S DEATH until He comes >1Cor.11:26 and Hebrews 9:16-17 confirms this. If your idea is just to have unity; have it rather and foremost with the Holy Spirit/Spirit in the bond of peace confirmed here Ep.3:3. The LORD’S Table IS NOT FOR CONFESSING SINS, It is a declaration that the promises of God are YES and IN HIM AMEN. There are many professing Christian’s who don’t know any better than to believe God at His Word; many have their faith in the realm of the emotions and any joy they have is easily offended at the slightest persecution. There is no willingness to suffer with Jesus and for that the life and glory of Christ DOES NOT manifest in their lives. The Purpose of God is indeed declared here in Romans 8:29-30, confirmed here where the Spirit of the LORD IS >2Cor.3:18. We also see this confirmed in Ephesians 4:13 and 2Thes.2:14, and yet many many many are only living a religious take and perceived element, with which there is no faith as from God; no more that one can have the faith of God except he first believe the Word of God. How can you have faith in pamphlets based upon the wisdom of men mixed with ancient paganism?
    They who are led of the Spirit know of this Purpose of God Romans8:29-30 and they who scoff at it are intellectuals, with which there is no faith neither can be; for the things that are freely given to us are revealed by the Spirit. therefore if your unity is amongst yourselves for the sake of unity and the Holy Spirit is only an intellectual insight of mental assent; you are being set up for deception and are letting a man/man take your reward. Here is the trust we have IN CHRIST toward God >The Ministration of the Spirit >2Cor.2:17, 3:3-6, 4:2 by manifestation of the truth THE ROCK, Beloved

    • Gallibus

      Re: ‘There is only one reason for the LORD’S TABLE and that is to show the LORD’S DEATH until He comes >1Cor.11:26 and Hebrews 9:16-17 confirms this.’

      Reply: What about ‘if you do not eat My flesh and drink My Blood, you will not have Life in you’? This is also a reason for the Lord’s Table, viz. where one gets fed the food of Life.

  • edwahzj_one

    Only babies see truth that reproves as being unloving. “Great peace have they that love my law, and nothing shall offend them” If your agenda is birth by men and using scripture the validity ask yourself this question? God seeks those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth” Jn.4:24 Now they who know the truth know it is the Spirit that we are quickened born of God that we have received the Spirit of His Son so we can be spiritual minded and understand the things of the Spirit who also leads us into all truth. Have you the Spirit of God dwelling in you; now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of HIS. The sons of God do not have to beat their bodies to obtain to the things of the Spirit and they who scoff at that have their minds steeped in the four gospels and resort to playing scrabble with the word of God. The Apostle to the Gentiles is Paul confirmed here > Acts 26:16-18 and they who obtain an inheritance are they who are sanctified unto the truth and by the Spirit by the faith OF Christ “That The Gentiles should be fellow-heirs and of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ. This is the will and purpose of God and cannot be obtained intellectually, not of him that wills nor of him that runs ( but by my Spirit says the LORD0) its God who gives the increase. These are the truths ministered in this dispensation of the grace of God according to the revelation of the Mystery and if you are led of the Spirit you will agree and not because I said it, but rather because as it is in truth the WORD OF GOD, Romans.16:25, Ephesians.3:1-6, Colossians.1:26-28 LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU, BELOVED

    • Tom york

      Very Good post – I can tell you a man that has studied to show himself approved of God rightly dividing the Word of Truth. All truth Comes by Faith – and Faith is a Revelation that God has to give you by His Spirit.

  • vegemouse

    I would rather be divided in truth than united in error.

  • Tom york

    Dear Bob bb – No I do not believe in what they did at the Nicene Council. Constantine was getting all pagans and anybody he could to unite with him. And that joined the apostate church and Civil government to gether. Which Revelation would call The Beast and the False Prophet. Politics and Religion united from that. Now do you see the hour is late in our day. When all are becoming ONE. It will not work but for a short time. And then it will burn. Just as the Bible says it will. The True Church Bride is Uniting with the Groom at this very time. As it was in Jesus Day. So is it today. Israel the Chruch joined with Rome to Kill Jesus Christ. Relilgion and Politics crucified our Dear Savior. Its happening right now again. Seek for truth with all your heart dear Brother.

  • Keith

    Psa 119:20 My being is crushed with longing For Your right-rulings at all times.
    [I'm not there, yet. How can anyone get there when the false teachers of today are telling us it has all been done away with-that we don't have to do that "stuff".]

    • Keith

      I really don’t know how anyone from mainstream Christiainity can read Psalm 119 and NOT be convicted that this whole “the Law was fulfilled and done away with” and “Jesus did it all so I don’t have to” is totally wrong. A Bible divided against itself cannot stand. YHWH does not change.

  • Keith

    Was reading Isaiah 66 today in today’s Torah Portion.
    Isa 66:15 “For look, יהוה comes with fire and with His chariots, like a whirlwind, to render His displeasure with burning, and His rebuke with flames of fire.
    Isa 66:16 “For by fire and by His sword יהוה shall judge all flesh, and the slain of יהוה shall be many –
    [When you go to Isaiah 24 for further context you find out why all that disaster is coming to the earth. Read ALL of chapter 24, but verses 5 and 6 are key:]

    Isa 24:5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torot1, changed2 the law, broken the everlasting covenant3. Footnotes: 1Torot – plural of Torah, teaching. 2Jer. 23:36. 3This is the only reason, according to all Scriptures, why the earth shall be burned in the day of judgment – see also 13:9, 13:11, 26:21, 66:24, Mic. 5:15, Zeph. 1:2-18.
    Isa 24:6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.

    • Keith

      And yet the bulk of mainstream “Christianity” teaches that the Torah has been done away with-except they misuse the word, “fulfilled”. If everyone believes and follows those teachers, perhaps that is why there are “few men left”.
      Luk 13:23 and someone said to Him, “Master, are there few who are being saved?” And He said to them,
      Luk 13:24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, because many, I say to you, shall seek to enter in and shall not be able.
      Luk 13:25 “When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Master, Master, open for us,’ and He shall answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’
      Luk 13:26 then you shall begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’
      Luk 13:27 “But He shall say, ‘I say to you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of unrighteousness.’

      • Keith

        You tell me, are not all of those in the above photo not teaching that very thing? Think about it.

  • Missionary Alan

    Actually, in spite of the deluded and unfounded ramblings of defenders of Catholicism. The “Virgin Mary” is much more than venerated. She is worshipped and placed in a position that scriptural Christianity does not support. She is referred to as the “Mother of God”, and as a “Mediatrix”. In fact, the common teaching is that there are two ways or ladders to God. One is through Christ, who is hard and unyielding. The other is through Mary who is more compassionate and because of her Son’s love for her will yield to her petitions. This is not scriptural. We have an Intercessor, we have a High Priest who cannot be subsituted at the whim of misguided individuals or colossal organizations seeking to further their influence through distorsions of Holy Writ. The defenders can make all of the claims they care too, but let the theme of the early reformers be on our lips, “Sola Escritura” (Only Scripture).

    • Gallibus

      Yet who can tell the Intercessor that He cannot appoint a Mediator to Him? And who are we to tell the Lord that we only listen to those Words of His that were recorded in the Bible and that He should shut up now – He has had His opportunity?

      • Instigator

        Where does Christ mention, and let two or three things establish a matter, that Mary or another man mediate or represent Him on Earth? Jesus Christ makes states no such thing and He alone is the Head.
        The Holy Spirit calls out and testifies of the Savior. The Savior is the Mediator to the Father. They are three distinct offices of God. He does not need a man to accomplish His will.

    • Gallibus

      Early reformers of God’s Word alias heretics.

    • H2o2Bill

      (2Ti 3:16-17) All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

      (1Th 5:21-22) But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil.

  • Missionary Alan

    In exchange for influence and social acceptance, modern evangelicals are giving up what was bought through the blood, sacrifice and even lives of those gone on before. The reformation was of God and has been proven by the lives of the countless multitudes who have found a personal relationship with Christ. They abandoned the empty teachings of a Pagan religion wrapped in the trappings of Psuedo-Christianity and found life. I have spent my life winning Catholics through the preaching of the Gospel in a Latin country. I understand the low key approach they are employing in the US. In Latin America the distinction is much much more apparent. Google the Saint Bartholomew’s Day Masacre to understand the true nature of the Whore of Revaltion. Look to Fox’s book of Martyrs and see a history they are trying to rewrite.

    • Julie

      You people have to be restorationists.

      • Instigator

        Restorationists? There is only the called out ones. The rest are not of the body of Christ.

  • Irv Spielberg

    I see that Maryaha has been unknowingly influenced by some rapture defenders who have been desperately trying to stem the tide – actually a tsunami – of folks abandoning the 184-year-old British import known as the “pretribulation rapture.” I invite her to read “Margaret Macdonald’s Rapture Chart” (on Google). Those who cherry pick Margaret’s statement that “The trial of the church is from Antichrist” and assume she was a POST-trib favor repeating more than researching. Margaret was a partial rapturist who saw PART of the church raptured before the Antichrist and the other PART of the church enduring the tribulation – and the word “church” is found this way on partial rapture charts and in their summaries. Even Dr. John Walvoord, the longtime No. 1 pretrib rapture defender, stated in “The Rapture Question,” p. 105, that partial rapturists are “pretribulationists”! And even Hal Lindsey’s “The Rapture,” p. 172, says that Margaret “definitely teaches a partial Rapture”! Those who value pretrib rapture defense more than truth (including Thomas Ice, Charles Ryrie, even hireling John Bray, etc.) love to keep on poisoning the rapture debate by claiming (falsely) that Margaret Macdonald was a posttrib. If Maryaha wants some verified background on the wealthy pretrib traffickers who keep repeating such self-serving, misleading statements, she can Google “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.” Thanks, TRUNEWS, for letting me give my two cents.

    • Robert Bbb

      Of course you want to hold on to hostility and bitterness of past history. Wrongs have been done by both catholics and protestants in past events but holding on to hostile feelings of the past is NOT christian. Others and you need healing of bitter feelings to receive gifts of forgiveness, kindness and love toward others groups that you dont agree with.

      • Instigator

        Being Catholic or Protestant does not make a person “Christian.”

  • Missionary Alan

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

  • Missionary Alan

    1 Corinthians 15:51-55
    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
    Get out of your books and get into the WORD

  • abbygirl08

    Hey! Where’s my brother Ken? Missing you here lately. Hope all is well with you.

    • Keith

      Isn’t he a carpenter by trade? If he is, this should be the busy season.

    • Ken Faivor

      Your sweet, I’ve been putting in long hours framing and good help is hard to find. Boys these days are too soft and my generation is getting old. But I am still expected to finish a job in a timely manner, so I’ve been taking up the slack. It’s nice to be missed.

      • abbygirl08

        Glad to hear your OK. Get some rest.

  • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

    Babel was the dividing of language which gave rise to religion, culture and tribes “And the Lord said behold, the people is one, and they have all one language”……… Gen11:6
    Satan’s whore, Mystery Babylon will cause all the people to ‘speak in unity’ in one (ecumenical spiritual language) in adoration of the Image of the beast. Rev13:8,15 (It is this that will be the universal Ideology of faith)
    The proponents of ecumenism say that in the new unification, it would not matter which God you worshipped just as long as you worshipped an image representing God. this is not a literal Image to which a modern humanity renders worship, it is as a ‘spiritual image’ established in the heart of men, The God of ones choice, even Self.
    What most Christians seem to neglect or do not realise is that Babylon has not only evolved to be the Great economic power of the end-Times, but that she is also very ‘Religious’.
    Listed among all her merchandise is the “Souls of Men” Rev18:13
    In the doctrine of the sale of indulgences the souls of men are trafficked in Babylon.
    The gods of ancient civilizations were always worshiped by imagery and always associated with the economical power of that civilization.
    In every country in the world today, economic powers are holding meetings to establish Global systems with intent to Control the activities of every nation on earth.
    All nations are in the fold of the ‘ecumenical sea’ of Babylon. Rev13:1
    Those who will not acknowledge her satanic highness and will not drink from the cup of her fornication, will suffer the same consequences, as did the Seed of the Woman in the dark Ages. Rev13:15
    The beast has not changed; He still carries the whore. he has just faded into the background and still has all the powers of the “first beast” the power of the Lion, the Bear and the Leopard Daniel7

    • Joseph O Morrow

      This is very right on, John. The old name “Holy Roman Empire” is being bandied about more and more these days. The eventual world-consuming beast power is basically intact right now just waiting for its last head to emerge on the scene.

    • Julie

      You just blasphemed the Lord. Our altars worship the One True God.

      You are in some cult.

      • Instigator

        The Catholic Church is the first and foremost cult.

      • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

        I came out of the cult called Popery! for your information I am with No church..

  • HisHandmaiden

    Okay, this is kind of creepy to me. Not only has the pope been meeting
    with religious representatives of the Jewish and Islamic faiths, now he
    is meeting with leaders of the American Evangelical churches in an
    attempt to “bring ALL faiths together in love”. Sounds wonderful on the
    surface, but I believe we are witnessing the laying of a foundation for a
    one world religion that will ultimately help to usher in the one world
    government and one world economic system that the Bible
    predicts will occur at the end of the age. The sad part is that
    religious leaders around the world are embracing this concept
    wholeheartedly. I just heard Kenneth Copeland praise the pope by saying,
    “We honor you sir with all of our hearts, all of our souls and all of
    our minds.” Now who are we supposed to be honoring in that way as
    Christians? Certainly NOT the pope, a mere man, but the God of Abraham,
    Issac and Jacob ONLY!! Is this evidence that even the very elect are
    being deceived by the false prophet of the end times? Sadly, I say
    “yes”.

    • Gunny L

      HHM, I think you hit the nail on the head. We need to be careful not to idolize men in the evangelical church either. Good word.

    • Mal

      Obviously, you have not been reading the Pope’s messages. He believes that the we need to be faithfully in union with Jesus in and through the Church the Lord established. He will never deviate from that fundamental belief. However, just like Jesus, who reached out to sinners, lepers and Samaritan women, the Pope also reaches out to those who do not yet worship as Catholics do.

      • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

        Mal, So during the inquisition of the dark ages all who would not submit to the outreach of the popes were Killed.. That was the love of Jesus in action I suppose.

        Lets get real; The papacy has blood on it’s hands and never repented of it’s murderous acts…..

        • Mal

          The Dark Ages were anything but dark. Do update your information.
          The Inquisitions were political in nature. People preferred going to the Church courts than to the state ones. Only those who were found to be guilty of state crimes were handed over to the state. If you rely on mischievous writings you will continue to have these wrong ideas.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            Mal wake up from thy slumber.. pay attention to the memorial coin to the then Pope in this video….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCUejUolEsc

            History is a reality…

          • Julie

            That is the new one out there…the new spin. Out of context. The pope likewise was misinformed and they did not have the internet. Those who did this were out of control, led by a Frederick if I recall. They acted on their own, unruly. But you don’t want to share this either, do you.

            History also tells more than that unfortunate incident.

            The Church is made of human beings. People make mistakes. The Normans were also operating on their own momentum and attacked sacred places in Constantinople and for this the Greeks won’t forgive.

          • Instigator

            Amazing how many want to believe a lie. Do not find solace in the traditions of men, they are deadly.

          • H2o2Bill

            Persecution of the Waldenses in France
            Popery having brought various innovations into the Church, and overspread the Christian world with darkness and superstition, some few, who plainly perceived the pernicious tendency of such errors, determined to show the light of the Gospel in its real purity, and to disperse those clouds which artful priests had raised about it, in order to blind the people, and obscure its real brightness.
            The principal among these was Berengarius, who, about the year 1000, boldly preached Gospel truths, according to their primitive purity. Many, from conviction, assented to his doctrine, and were, on that account, called Berengarians. To Berengarius succeeded Peer Bruis, who preached at Toulouse, under the protection of an earl, named Hildephonsus; and the whole tenets of the reformers, with the reasons of their separation from the Church of Rome, were published in a book written by Bruis, under the title of “Antichrist.”
            By the year of Christ 1140, the number of the reformed was very great, and the probability of its increasing alarmed the pope, who wrote to several princes to banish them from their dominions, and employed many learned men to write against their doctrines.
            In A.D. 1147, because of Henry of Toulouse, deemed their most eminent preacher, they were called Henericians; and as they would not admit of any proofs relative to religion, but what could be deduced from the Scriptures themselves, the popish party gave them the name of apostolics. At length, Peter Waldo, or Valdo, a native of Lyons, eminent for his piety and learning, became a strenuous opposer of popery; and from him the reformed, at that time, received the appellation of Waldenses or Waldoys.
            Pope Alexander III being informed by the bishop of Lyons of these transactions, excommunicated Waldo and his adherents, and commanded the bishop to exterminate them, if possible, from the face of the earth; hence began the papal persecutions against the Waldenses.
            The proceedings of Waldo and the reformed, occasioned the first rise of the inquisitors; for Pope Innocent III authorized certain monks as inquisitors, to inquire for, and deliver over, the reformed to the secular power. The process was short, as an accusation was deemed adequate to guilt, and a candid trial was never granted to the accused.
            The pope, finding that these cruel means had not the intended effect, sent several learned monks to preach among the Waldenses, and to endeavor to argue them out of their opinions. Among these monks was one Dominic, who appeared extremely zealous in the cause of popery. This Dominic instituted an order, which, from him, was called the order of Dominican friars; and the members of this order have ever since been the principal inquisitors in the various inquisitions in the world. The power of the inquisitors was unlimited; they proceeded against whom they pleased, without any consideration of age, sex, or rank. Let the accusers be ever so infamous, the accusation was deemed valid; and even anonymous informations, sent by letter, were thought sufficient evidence. To be rich was a crime equal to heresy; therefore many who had money were accused of heresy, or of being favorers of heretics, that they might be obliged to pay for their opinions. The dearest friends or nearest kindred could not, without danger, serve any one who was imprisoned on account of religion. To convey to those who were confined, a little straw, or give them a cup of water, was called favoring of the heretics, and they were prosecuted accordingly. No lawyer dared to plead for his own brother, and their malice even extended beyond the grave; hence the bones of many were dug up and burnt, as examples to the living. If a man on his deathbed was accused of being a follower of Waldo, his estates were confiscated, and the heir to them defrauded of his inheritance; and some were sent to the Holy Land, while the Dominicans took possession of their houses and properties, and, when the owners returned, would often pretend not to know them. These persecutions were continued for several centuries under different popes and other great dignitaries of the Catholic Church. (Fox’s Book of Martyrs By John Fox
            Chapter 4)

          • Instigator

            That is not even close to the reality of the Middle Ages. The Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire. It is of the flesh not the Spirit.

        • Julie

          You are a victim of English spin. There are Englishmen who literally made up stuff to cause its people to hate Catholics.

          Have you heard of Pave the Way Organization?

          It is a Jewish organization that was given permission to go to the Vatican archives. They wanted to find all the dope they could find to nail Pope Pius XII so he would not be a canonized saint. Well they were surprised to be given free rein.

          After their research, they came out seeing that no other person had done more for the Jews than Pope Pius the XII. I got their book. In it I also read the Russian Orthodox sent some Romanian priests into the Vatican to get hold of the documents and change wording to smear him. But for some unknown reason, they could not do it. The Lord and His holy angels protect what is truthful in the Church.

          They are working now to correct the calumnies stated against Pius and a rabbi who was very much against this pope has made a public apology.

          They went back in and studied more. They came out again saying why didn’t the Church defend itself more.

          Pope John Paul II opened up the documents on the Inquisition. It confirmed what catholics long knew that so much was exaggerated and falsesified. There were also some Americans in the mid 1800′s who also created spins from what they had read of the Inquisition and also spread false concepts. The Spanish clerics spent most of their time vindicating the accused by temporal powers.

          But you have to look at Spain and see it was attacked and plundered by the Muslims for 700 years, and to this day the Muslims still believe Spain belongs to them.

          So my question to you, John B, is why do you take your focus off of Christ and have it in your heart to want to believe in falsehoods about Christ’s Church????

          • Instigator

            Those are demons, not angels.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            Your delusion has caused you to deny historical facts.. So now The inquisition is not really evil and the popes during it’s 600 years were all saints justifying the Butchering and Killing
            (((get real))) Your church has blood on it’s hands Full-Stop

    • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

      It is easy to see given the mentality of Copeland how the beast is worshipped.. most people think of worship as bowing before God or an Idol.. but the biblical description is that worship means ‘to recognise great worth” millions of Catholics already have no problem with the pope being Titled blasphemously ‘Holy Father’.. it seems that these evangelicals take no offence at this men in the guise of God…

      • Julie

        Copeland is considered a heretic by evangelicals because he uses Scripture and mind control to use it to get what he wants. My daughter’s mother in law is into Copeland and I have read some of the material and it is manipulative.

        The title ‘holy father’ is better than the derisive English ‘pope’.

        You are reading from misunderstanding.

        You refuse to listen to Catholics in how we believe.

        You want to project your idea of idolatry onto us.

        Get the catechism and you will see how we truly believe.

        • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

          I am an Ex catholic dear.. Know the doctrines back to front… In a nutshell; (Catholicism is judaism Gone all the way)
          left some 35 years ago.. One shepherd Jesus my Lord.. Nobody gonna to take that away from me Nobody not even death!
          You bow to the man Francis You hang on His papal authority that is idolatry (((Get a Life)))

    • Julie

      Catholics know very well the pope is a mere man.

      You are seeing everything from this posture that the Catholic Church is the great harlot, the whore.

    • PGMGN

      The father of a family is a ‘mere man’ and yet he is given the grace to act as the lawful head. ‘Mere men’ as you say hold many positions that we must honor, not because of the man, but because of the position and who ordained said position.

    • Julie

      No Catholic talks like that to any pope. He is not God, and we are not the pope’s servants. He is to be a servant of the Lord and nothing more.

  • Gunny L

    Ok, aside from this article, it baffles my mind the amount of comments from people who claim to know the truth. The arguments and positions that most hold here are the precise reason I have stopped listening to everyone who claims to “know it all.” Truly sickening. I don’t know why I do it to myself (reading comments).

    • abbygirl08

      This is why we need you here… to tweak all the “know-it-alls”, including myself when I act that way. :)

      • Gunny L

        Yeah, but then I would be thought of as a know-it-all, and I’m not.

    • Julie

      It is sad that non denominationals limit themselves and their faith in God and have to use part of themselves to denigrate all that is Catholic.

      If you would take the time to study our faith you would see how expansive it is.

      People should get their own Catholic Catechism and study it and see if they find anything negative about the Lord in it that doesn’t make sense.

      • Instigator

        Why do people insist on pandering their religion? God is not religious.

      • Jesse

        Talk is pretty cheap at times and your church has not lived up to its Catechism In it’s bloody history.

    • Instigator

      Amen. We are commanded to love our neighbors and pray for our enemies. Shows us how strong the delusion is in here.

      • Gunny L

        Yup

  • Robert Bbb

    Many people use the bible to justify their negative beliefs. Bringing all faiths together in love at a ceremony is not the same as uniting all religions. If there was a picnic the pope would invite everyone, but from comments in here many would only allow in certain people with the same beliefs, thats not “love thy neighbor and enemy”.
    :
    Pope Francis would be against uniting all religions because it goes against the gospel of Christ. When the evil worship of the antichrist comes they will have closed all Catholic Churches and Mass services, to use the church building for their own use: “Armed forces shall move at his command and defile the santuary stronghold, abolishing the daily sacrifice(Mass ceremony is a sacrifice) and setting up the horrible abomination.” Daniel 11:31

  • Mary Shinn

    Let us lose one objection to the Faith which comes from misinterpreting Holy Scripture that originates from no God given authority to interpret Scripture.

    Our Lord was using hyperbole when He said “call no man father.” Jesus used hyperbole, another example, cut off your right hand.

    Our Lord and the Apostles called holy men of God “father.”

    John 8:56
    Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.

    • Instigator

      Bad interpretation. Check it out again.

  • Mary Shinn

    God is going to bring our dear separated brothers and sisters to the Faith (the Orthodox + the Protestants) at the time of and soon after the “awakening.” Catholics hear it called the “Warning” in their prophetic. Who will be able to stand? All but a few holy people will wish to hide, for the rocks to fall on them when God shows each person, non-Christians too, the state of their soul in an NDE like life review. Oh His love and mercy to save souls. This personal divine “awakening” will also be God warning of the anti-Christ. Read Revelation 6:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 3:13.

    • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

      Mary;There is no such thing as separated Brothers and sisters There is only Children of God the Father or Children of The devil..
      Those who are in Christ Jesus having received His Life by the indwelling Spirit are all one in the unity of the Faith.. This faith is not Orthodox, Catholic, protestant ect: it is The pure whole hearted devotion to Christ Jesus. 2 Cor 11:3 It is Christ Living His Life in and through us..

      • Gallibus

        If one is pure and whole-heartedly devoted to Christ, one will take His instructions to heart, keep His Commandments and be in His Church where He offers Himself to make His members holy, forgiving their sins and feeding them with the bread of eternal Life. Otherwise, one is clearly ‘separated’ from His expressed Will.

        • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

          The Faith and the Church is Apostolic with Christ as the Head and not Papal..
          I obey the Holy Father in heaven and not the holy father in Rome..

          • Gallibus

            So you think you obey God by rejecting His vicar on earth? Self-delusion has set in, Dear.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            Yeh, I am self deluded, because I choose to obey God rather than a man.. Tell me according to the Word of God Who is He that leads into all Truth? Could it be the only vicar of Christ whom He said He would send “The Holy Spirit” Christ with us…

          • Mal

            The Holy Spirit guides and protects the Church that Jesus created.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            He sure does Guides and protect His church..

          • Instigator

            The Church does not exist. There is only the church. And they are gathered together as one entity at this time. The Church is a man-made Thing that Babylonians worship. Come of her my people is what God tells us.

          • Gallibus

            Even the Vicar of Christ obeys the Head of the Church, who is Jesus Christ. That is why the Pope is not free to ‘shoot from the hip’ when declaring doctrine or matters of Faith – unlike the Protestant ministers who feel free to make it up as they go along.

          • Jesse

            A Vicar of Christ would be His substitute and there are non. Your pope is a man made fraud.
            No ‘full ‘gospel’ minister makes up ANYTHING AS HE GOES ALONG, and you have stated a lie. PROVE IT YOU SAY. All Spirit filled believers are guided by the Holy Spirit, and He will send ‘flags’ and ‘alarms’ at any false teaching whether it comes from you of an ordained minister. Point is that true Spirit filled believers will not tolerate “make it up as they go along”. I have experienced this many times, on these min-blogging pages but most pronounced when I began to read the book “2008″,

          • Gallibus

            Vicar of Christ is His delegate not His substitute. If they don’t make it up as they go along how do you explain all the differences in teaching the one Christ?

          • Instigator

            How can you study the history of the world and come to that conclusion?

          • Jesse

            Yes it took many gradual adjustments to finally and fully escape from the horrid paganism of Simonism’s RCC.

          • Instigator

            You have not studied history. That is completely rubbish. And as for the Protestant Churches they are of their mother Catholic Church. They are ALL wrong.

          • Jesse

            Yes some small parts of Catholic paganism managed to filter into many protestant groups but not all Christian beliefs are complete rubbish. In fact many ‘Full Gospel’ groups do a pretty good but still imperfect job of getting it right.

          • Julie

            You obey yourself.

            The Church prevents that. It carries on its divine mission to manifest Christ to us.

            I go to some non-denominational churches and the inside is secular, nothing holy. The people are holy in their faith.

            There is a great loss of connecting Christ to the created world.

            I wonder if the posters here are of Calvinist lineage.

            The faith in the Lord helps us see the beauty and truth of God’s creation which has been free from sin. I affirm Christ in all things and all people irregardless of what they think.

          • Instigator

            All organized churches are of Babylon. ALL of them. Some may have started out in the Spirit but soon they all end up the same way.

          • Gallibus

            In actual fact you are believing in what another man told you to believe and that man was not the one the Lord gave the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. Poor choice.

          • Instigator

            Uhhhhh….the entire RCC thing is of man. Christ alone has the keys. Wake up.

          • Gallibus

            Did you miss that part in the Scriptures where Jesus gave the keys to Peter?

          • Instigator

            Discussing this verse gets a bit old. But here goes…. Jesus did not say on Peter. Read it slowly and notice what Jesus is telling Peter. Peter is not the Rock. Christ is the cornerstone. Peter was giving faith by God to believe that Christ is the Savior and Messiah. If you want to twist it and build a religion on it, you may as well build a golden calf and say that it represents Christ.

          • Gallibus

            You are giving the Johnny-come-lately misinterpretation that denies hundreds of years of Jesus’ Church. Such fatuous nonsense! True, Jesus is the cornerstone – the one that raises up but also the one that many men stumble over and are crushed through their erroneous nonsense and disbelief.

          • Instigator

            And you are under strong delusion. Christ’s church is Israel of God, not Roman Catholicism. Good luck with that.

          • Instigator

            Amazing how many find solace in an organization rather than in Christ. Sad for them. But it is of the Lord’s doing and plan.

          • Keith

            I don’t have time to look it up right now, but perhaps John B will-there is ONE mediator between man and Elohim-Yeshua the Messiah. John B and I disagree on interpretation of Scriptures in many cases, but I’m 100% with him on the Pope NOT being YHWH’s “vicar”. I think people like you will AGAIN one day murder people like me and think that you do Elohim a service.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            1 Tim 2:5 “One mediator”

          • Gallibus

            The Pope, ‘Peter’ as the Lord calls him, is the successor of Peter to whom the Lord Jesus gave the keys of the kingdom of Heaven. Check it out. Nonsense about me wanting to murder you: the Lord wants you to LIVE so He is able to do His work in you and save you. He has commanded: Do not kill and I certainly would not being doing Him or myself a favour in killing you. You are God’s beloved child and He wants you to Live eternally. This life is your chance to grasp what He offers. He will call you in His own good time.

          • Jesse

            The apostle Peter was not Catholicism’s first pope, if he was you should be able to prove he resided in Rome for 30 years when he in fact did not.Simon Magus was your first pope.

          • Gallibus

            So say the ignorant and the heretics. St Peter was martyred in Rome. And residence in Rome does not make the Pope – Christ does.

          • Instigator

            The pope’s pedigree in being vicar is like Obama’s birth certificate. Both are fraudulent.

          • Jesse

            No I said should be able to PROVE IT not just shoot off your uneducated mouth

          • Jesse

            You may call me an ignorant heretick as you wish, without any harm to me whatsoever. However, Your assumptions and erroneous beliefs are likely to bring you considerable harm.

          • Instigator

            Yes!

          • Jesse

            I don’t see how the Catholics can flatly deny this probability especially considering the bones they think/claim to be Peters has no feet and Simon’s attempt to fly crashed and he lost his. It really makes them angry though, but it’s not difficult to find historical evidence as well as Paul’s writings to reinforce the whole thing. Paul was quite vague about where the opposing teachings were coming from, but that doesn’t justified the Catholic’s blinders.

          • Jesse

            I posted this a couple of hours ago and I guess it was CENSORED for some reason;
            You replied to Instigator · 2 hours ago

            I don’t see how the Catholics can flatly deny this probability especially considering the bones they think/claim to be Peters has no feet and Simon’s attempt to fly crashed and he lost his. It really makes them angry though, but it’s not difficult to find historical evidence as well as Paul’s writings to reinforce the whole thing. Paul was quite vague about where the opposing teachings were coming from, but that doesn’t justified the Catholic’s blinders.

          • Jesse

            Second reply; On this same subject, for some time now I have had the feeling/urging that my belief on this subject may be in error. I don’t know why but the Holy Spirit does not speak to me with words as some others claim, only urgings. So I have thought about it quite a bit, and logically, if Peter had angered Magus so badly that he went and started a morphodite version or Christianity I think it would have included a lot of his favorite stuff which was magic. Admittedly most of the questionable beliefs and teachings of the Catholics are more closely related to the pagan worshiping associated with Rome of that time, and therefore could have been added by Constantine at Nicaea. I am however quite sure that if the apostle Peter had started the Catholic church it would not have been called the universal church and would not have included that weird stuff and the ten commandments would be intact as originally given. No pope, prayer beads, statues of idols, extra Fathers, and necromancy to name a few.

          • Hondo Stone

            You are in strong delusion and yet in your sins because you refuse to believe in the ONLY Name under heaven whereby we must be saved and your Mary is not in any of that salvation, nor to be prayed to as she was a SINNER like all mankind and needed a Savior like all mankind and was only a virgin until after she gave birth to Jesus!

            Read your Bible!

            Repent of this abomination of your damnable church lest you perish in your sins, is what the Bible says!

          • Gallibus

            You have accepted heresy and that is a result of your accepting illegitimate and false teachers.
            Mary was created sinless as a fitting mother for the Son of the all-holy God and she remained sinless and miraculously a virgin all her life. If Jesus honours her, what grounds have you to quibble? Sheer jealousy!

          • Instigator

            There no head of the church but Christ. All others that claim such a role are of their father the Devil.

          • Julie

            Jesus Christ is the one Mediator and High Priest.

            On Ascension, He fulfilled the High Priest on the Day of Atonement, and ministers to us from heaven at Mass, through His representative, the priest.

            If you say there is no visible Church Christ instituted, you come up short. And if you believe in Sola Scriptura which practically most Jews did not believe in as well as the bible itself not claiming to be sole authority, but those who have authorized leadership, then you are reducing the Word of God to text and subsequently division and man made interpretation.

          • Instigator

            Yes, the RCC is a man-made church. God’s Word warns about the traditions of men. I suppose Easter egg hunts are godly? Christmas is godly, too? I could go on but it makes no difference. Only God can remove the mud from your eyes. And my eyes, too. But the RCC is not the Church. It is a whited sepulcher at best.

          • Jesse

            Here is what Paul had to say about the large group of people that were harassing him as he went about his work.

            Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

            Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

          • Jesse

            That’s a pretty deep thought Keith, and not only likely but scriptural. Of course it will not (might not) be individuals like Gallbus, it will be the ‘Beast’ and his universal church.

          • H2o2Bill

            (1Ti 2:5-6) For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

          • Keith

            It could be the Crusades Pt. 2.

          • Instigator

            Indeed. It is in the making even now….

          • Jesse

            Yes Keith Jesus is who you seek but the correct term is intercessor not vicar. Vicar means replacement, the Holy Spirit was poured out when Jesus went away. (If you must name a Vicar, the Holy Spirit is the only likely candidate.)

          • H2o2Bill

            Do you realize the word “anti” in the Greek means instead of?

            (((antichristos (G500) can mean either “against Christ” or “instead of Christ,” or perhaps, combining the two, “one who, assuming the guise of Christ, opposes Christ” (Westcott). VINE’S COMPLETE EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY
            OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT WORDS http://www.studylight.org/dictionary/ved/

            (Rom 10:8-13) But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”–that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” (NASB) Capital letters indicate a quote from the old Testament.

          • Gallibus

            Yet He also said ‘Many will call Lord, Lord and I will say I do not know you!’
            Those who do the Will of God will be the ones that He recognizes.

          • Instigator

            But if that person does not know the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then which side of that is he? It is not whether a sinner knows God; it is whether God knows him.

          • Gallibus

            If satan also believes in Jesus Christ will he also be saved?

          • H2o2Bill

            Do you still throw rocks at School buses?

            Your arguing with the Bible not me. Your statement does not apply and has nothing to do with the verses I posted.

            (Act 16:29-31) And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

            (Act 8:36-37) As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]

            Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

          • Instigator

            No one truly knows what comes following this life. They think they do but there is no way that can truly do so with a “thus saith the Lord” because heaven is inside a believer and he is the temple of the Lord. The spiritual blindness is pitch black in too many. They are busy arguing things that they have such little understanding of but think themselves astute because they we told so by another that they say is an authority on God. The spiritual enlightened look within and to the Lord for their direction not from the mere rants and oratories of supposed preachers, pastors, priests, and guest speakers.

          • Instigator

            Vicar? Really how can you even believe that blasphemy after reading God’s Word? Delusion is rampant, indeed.

          • Jesse

            There is no Earthly ‘Vicar’ established by God, that is something made up by Simon so he could get the job. (and he did it well)

          • adam hordos

            Wrong John, Jesus said to Peter the first pope you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church. We cannot make up our own rules.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            I do not make any rules.. I just believe what God reveals as truth in the written word.
            I am not going to debate who the Rock is.. except to say that the Church is built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets and Christ Himself the corner stone.
            Christ is the Petra (rock) Peter is petros (stone) who also referred to himself as such (Living stones being built up) 1Pet 2:5 among all who believed the same revelation given him in Mat 18 (That Jesus is the Messiah the son of the Living God).. It is upon that revelation that Jesus builds his church.

          • adam hordos

            I DON’T KNOW IF YOU REALIZE JOHN, THAT EVER WORD WE SPEAK OR ESPECIALLY WRITE WE WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I HAVE WATCHED THIS SITE AND MANY OTHERS. WHEN SATAN WAS CAST OUT OF HEAVEN THERE WAS NO BATTLE WITH SWORDS OR FIRE. IT WAS DONE BY DEBATES LIKE IT IS BEING DONE TODAY. GOD NEVER CONDEMNED A SOUL EVER TO HELL PEOPLE JUDGE THEMSELVES.BE CAREFUL.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            I agree with that..

          • Instigator

            That goes both ways Adam. Too many believe the words of men and do not follow in the ways of the Berean and prove all things.

          • Julie

            Bereans are also very anti Catholic along with the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists. Most of bigoted groups come out of America.

          • Julie

            You are denying the historical work of the Church with successors.

            It can be historically proven the seat of Peter has continued down to today. Yes, there were some bad popes as well, but the Church is in the end based on the living cornerstone of Jesus Christ and His defined form of worship and Scripture.

            In the end, it is the Eucharist that brings to life and understanding Sacred Scripture.

            I experience Christ with the Protestants. This morning I am taking someone to his services and I experience the same Lord with them. But the sense of the sacred, the presence of the Lord, the communion of saints, the thorough theology is not there.

            Protestants, especially non-denominational, loose out on so many graces and blessings.

          • Instigator

            You are enamored with myths and scriptural fallacies. Apostasy had already infiltrated the seven churches in John’s day. Catholicism is part of that apostasy.

          • Jesse

            I don’t feel the need to obtain the Catholics ides of graces and blessings. (rather have the real thing)

          • mightymouse

            I always understood ‘the rock’ of Christ’s church was not the man Peter but what Peter the man believed and confessed…that Jesus was the Son of God.

          • Keith

            Yes. And not that Peter was soooo smart that he figured it out. The Father showed it to him.

          • Julie

            Jesus Christ is the living cornerstone of the Church but He authorized His apostles as the visible foundation of the Church. Christ alone is the life of the Church. That is the problem with people here.

          • Jesse

            Peter was the coward that denied Christ three times only to save his embarrassment, or maybe his skin was on the line, but coward he was. At one point Jesus called him Satan in plain terms because he was focused on the mortal world.

          • Julie

            Likewise it shows that it is Peter who needed the Lord the most. think about.

          • Jesse

            That’s an interesting ‘double’ thought, Julie. Some of us here are bashing pope Frank because we don’t think he is a good choice to be the leader of the huge Catholic semi-christian organization, and see signs of his attempt to establish a one world religion

          • Keith

            Peter was not the leader of the first church. At the Jerusalem “council” after everybody spoke-Yaqoob(James) stood up-not Peter and more less said look boys this how this is going to be.

          • Keith

            Act 15:13 And after they were silent, Yaʽaqoḇ answered, saying, “Men, brothers, listen to me:

            Act 15:19 “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the gentiles who are turning to Elohim,

            Act 15:22 Then it seemed good to the emissaries and elders, with all the assembly, to send chosen men from among them to Antioch with Sha’ul and Barnaḇah: Yehuḏah being called Barsabba, and Sila, leading men among the brothers,
            Act 15:23 having written by their hand this: The emissaries and the elders and the brothers, To the brothers who are of the gentiles in Antioch, and Syria, and Kilikia: Greetings.
            [Now I'm not going to debate what Acts 15 was all about-no time for that now-but it should be pretty clear that Yaqoob was was the leader in this case. He listened to everyone else first-including Kepha(Peter) and then rendered a decision that they all agreed upon. ]

          • Julie

            Certainly. But remember, John stepped back to let Peter enter the tomb on the day of the Resurrection. There are other instances. Also Peter is the founder along with St. Paul of Rome. There are now two tombs opened…scientists are still working on them….one of Peter found deep under the altar of St. Peter, the other of St Paul in the Church of St. Paul, both remains likewise showing signs in the manner of their martyrdoms. If the remains are indeed St. Peter’s, he was about 5 ft 7 and of stocky, muscular build. All the churches in those time had their own bishops, but if any disputes came up that could not be settled, they were sent to Rome as the final authority. The Church in Rome at that time was wealthy and supported the emerging churches.

            The earliest Church worked at two different forms of governing, the episcopal and the conciliar. The model that ended up working the best was based on the Jewish model of one head, the episcopal.

            The problem with the Eastern Orthodox and the Latin Church is that if you have two heads, then it is a toss up and you end up deciding who you want rather than what the Lord wants.

            The whole thing of Catholicism, to be authentic Catholic, is that you don’t cherry pick and choose. You must totally die to yourself — which can a life long process, and you must seek God’s will and His way of looking at things and not your own. Follow me???

            So having one head over the entire universal church is not about a man having a power trip over God, but rather representing all of us.

            The Latin Church is much more evangelical and does not function by ethnic groups. Like if I was not Greek, I would not feel too much a part of a Greek Orthodox parish. But they are closest to us, along with the Anglicans.

            When you remove all the 7 sacraments from your form of Christianity, you loose so much of your roots, and then religion is that of the moment and more inclined and limited by personal experience rather than that we experience as believers in Salvation History.

          • Keith

            Where in the Bible is it permitted to open graves and disturb the contents?

          • Julie

            Now what in the world are you getting at now? There are solid reasons church people do things and not with the subtle nefarious reasons you are implying.

            Where do you spend most of your time..in the Lord or just reading every hack you can find that is anti Catholic…just wondering.

          • Instigator

            Was wealthy? The Vatican is very wealthy to this day. It is a great tool of Satan’s and has a large role to play in the end times. It is not on the Lord’s side….

          • Julie

            That is your perception. They are works of Catholics who contributed to the Church in praising Christ.

            The Vatican Library is the greatest library in the world. All that is in there was done by Catholics. Check out New Yorker Magazine, Jan 3, 2011.

          • Julie

            Christ gave Peter the power to bind and loosen.

            Without Christ appointed hierarchy…and it didn’t stop with the last apostle, they had chosen successors, the bishops, stated in Acts, — people are acting on their own self will. They pick and choose what they want to believe in as Luther did.

            Non denominational Protestants…biggest problem is the willful rejection of becoming educated.

            The Calvinist ministers are coming into the Catholic Church because they are becoming better educated and seeing the consistency of faith in Christ’s Church.

            Just because Christ instituted the Church, does not mean its members and leadership are perfect.

            There is no perfection in this world. But Christ is truly God and able to sustain His Church. Those that bear bad fruit are cut off.

          • Instigator

            Hierarchy? There is none. All stand before the Mediator ALONE. The shepherds SERVE the flock; the false shepherds set up a Thing called a Church where the flock serves them and the Thing. Those that do so sell themselves in bondage like Esau.

          • Instigator

            That is adding to scripture. That is also a like from the pit of Hell; a strong delusion if you will. Those who abide in that have not read the Bible and studied it in the spirit. They have been beguiled.

          • Mary Shinn

            John,

            There is no “Apostolic” succession in Protestantism. Starting with Martin Luther, October 31, 1517, came the break from the Faith.

            God has always named leaders on earth. Who is God’s chosen leader of Protestantism on earth? In the New Covenant Christ named Peter leader of the Faith Singular, one Church, one Faith. See Ephesians 4:5.

            The teachings of the Protestant Reformers were/are not of Christ. Faith Alone, Bible Alone, you are saved imputed to you by what Christ did on the Cross (imputation heresy), private judgment of Scripture, none of these taught by Our Lord or the Apostles. Read the Early Church Fathers, their quotes.

          • H2o2Bill

            Both Tertullian and Jerome gave a list of oral traditions that were not found in the Bible. (Tertullian, The crown or De Corona, ch 3-4), (Jerome, Dialogue Against the Luciferians, 8) Tertullian said of these practices that “without any written instrument, we maintain on the ground of tradition alone”.
            These include, baptizing by immersion three times, giving the one baptized a “drink of milk and honey” then forbidding the person from taking a bath for a week, kneeling in Sunday mass was forbidden, and the sign of the cross was to be made on the forehead. Jerome, echoing Tertullian, said that these “observances of the Churches, which are due to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law”. Why does the Catholic church not immerse thrice and allow kneeling? Why do both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches not keep any of these traditions, with the exception of thrice immersion by the Orthodox? Why
            do Roman Catholic churches today have knelling rails in front of every pew? If the “apostolic tradition” was to make the sign of the cross on the forehead, why do both Orthodox and Catholic churches change this to the current practice of the sign on the chest and head? If extra-biblical oral tradition is to be followed, then why don’t the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches practice all of these things?

            http://www.bible.ca/catholic-questions.htm

          • t. mess

            :)

          • Instigator

            Rome was never of the “FAITH.” Protestant and Catholic alike are not the church of God’s Word, they are corporate Churches.

          • Jesse

            Interesting post but oversimplified

          • Julie

            You are a restorationist…a Mormon type…thank goodness you are not calling us the Whore Church and her protestant whore sisters…like Pratt did of the Mormon religion that has had to distance itself from so many things it stated as true, about 3,000 times and when people want to live a restorationist cult, they are shunned by their own families.

          • Jesse

            Here is Paul’s attitude toward Simonism and the Universal church.

            Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

            Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

            Of course Simonists deny the true beginnings of the Universal church, and it is because they haven’t researched and studied to gain the truth. (They just eat up whatever the blasphemous creep in Rome tells them.) (It will all come out though and very soon.)

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            Thou art are Peter Greek (petros) = small stone and upon this Rock Greek (petra) = bed rock , I will build my Church
            Mat 16:18…
            The Petra is what Peter had just confessed “Thou art the Christ The son of the Living God” Vs16

            It is upon that truth that The church is built Believers are The Living stones As Peter said in 1 Pet 2:5

            Peter is Flesh and Blood.. not a suitable foundation for God’s Spiritual house..

            Jesus is the spiritual man and cornerstone of His church and all who confess him as peter did are united as “living stones” to the Foundation which is The Apostles and the Prophets and Christ Himself the cornerstone.. Eph 2:19,20

          • Hondo Stone

            John, these Catholics have been blinded and cannot know the truth unless the Lord have mercy and open their eyes and their hearts to believe His Word alone.
            They are on the fast track to hell, trusting in their church and it’s damnable teachings.
            Let them be and shake off the dust from your very feet if they will not hear Him!
            Peace brother

          • Gallibus

            There are none so blind as those who don’t want to see. You have taken satan’s deceit hook, line and sinker. May the Lord bless you and bring you into His Light.

          • Instigator

            And, by contrast, those who say they want to see are not necessarily of the truth either. You do not choose God; God chooses.

          • Gallibus

            True, and God does not reveal Himself to the learned and the proud but to the little and the humble. To learn anything one has to admit a lack of knowledge or understanding – this is difficult for many and is an impediment to learning.

          • Julie

            Yes and the humble are kind and understanding and don’t look for things to support their bias and ignorance.

            We are not to judge anyone.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            So then; why does a jesuit like the pope undergo 13 Years of training…

          • Julie

            I think you need a time out of all your damnation talk. You really are not in the Holy Spirit acting in this way.

        • Instigator

          Yes, but HOW does one come the true knowledge of Christ? Just by taking an altar call? Because someone knocked on their door and “shared” the gospel with them? Don’t think so. Such things are unscriptural. The Holy Spirit is the ONLY means by which a sinner is called out. Men do save men’s souls; God does.

          • Gallibus

            Yes, you are right – it takes more than a glancing encounter, generally.

      • Julie

        Then why are so many Protestants in America all split up? You have your main line denominations that all split up into smaller ones…I read there are about 34,000 splintered groups.

        Christianity is the greatest voting block in our country, but its divisions have invalidated its effectiveness.

        The Church is the Tree of Life. The fruit is the Eucharist.

        Protestantism is only 500 years old. It is essentially all in a person’s will in how much they seek the truth of Christ.

        I experience the same Holy Spirit in my Protestant friends, but they can only go so far in their understanding of Christ.

        My pastor had a Lutheran minister visit our parish and the minister could not get over how many different kinds of people were there, including racial, economic, and other differences. My pastor said there were as many opinions as people. It is the communion of faith that we experience.

        The Mass is what is spoken of in Revelations. The Mass is the connection between heaven and earth.

        • H2o2Bill

          If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible, being infallible, then why did Rome reject or question the inspiration of James and Hebrews , then later accept it? Conversely, Rome accepted as scripture books that were later rejected. If the Catholic church really is illuminated by the Holy Spirit so that men can trust her as “God’s organization”, why was she so wrong about something so simple? Should not the “Holy See” have known?

          http://www.bible.ca/catholic-questions.htm

          • Julie

            It had to do with authorship, same with the gospel of St. John. The Church is not some group of old men wanting to control people.

            These were the early Christians. The books of the bible were mostly completed by the turn of the first century. The Book of Hebrews was not approved for public revelation until some time later.

            It is all about authenticity. That is one of the reasons Christ gave us His instituted Church. We don’t follow one person.

            All theological reflections are submitted to the Church to discern together in the Holy Spirit what is God’s will.

            By 100 AD, most books of the Bible were approved for public revelation, the form of worship of the liturgy was completed, (do a search on St. Justin the Martyr describing how the Mass was said throughout the entire Christian world at that time), the form of episcopal hierarchy vs conciliar, and the basics of the creed were established.

            Final revelation of Who Christ is was not in Scripture per se, but at the Council of Nicea that Christ is of the same substance as God, not an off spring, such thinking would have led to polytheism and eventually return to paganism.

            You have to go back to the Jewish people. God led them. They were spiritual children in the beginning.

            Jesus founded the Church on the apostles, He the cornerstone. Otherwise we would be left to ourselves and our own self serving whimsies.

            It takes an act of faith to believe in Jesus. It takes an act of faith, to see beyond frail humanity to believe in Christ’s Church.

          • H2o2Bill

            Sorry but I don’t think you answered the question.

          • t. mess

            I’m not Catholic so I could be in error, it has been a while since I studied this. I think they translated from the Septuagint first, then went back & started from the Hebrew. They said they believed the Septuagint to be in error so they started over. All in all, it took many years & many original translations were thrown out & had. to be revisited. As far as Holy Ghost guidance: that is a good question that I cannot answer, either.

          • Julie

            Who said the Septuagint in error…the non Christian Jews? Luther went back to the Hebrew version that did not anticipate the Messiah..something so many protestants don’t realize. The books were put together with alot of rabble and dissension among the rabbis. The Septuagint was put together in total conformity of thought, language, word for word 200 years before Christ. The Masoretic Text is the Hebrew version Luther chose and it was put together 20 years after Christ.

            People do not realize the constructs of the Church — selection of books, the liturgy, the episcopal leadership, and the creed took time to develop. But most was done by the end of the first century.

            After the reformation, the Council of Trent went back after hearing Luther’s concerns, and then after much reflection and prayer reaffirmed the books used are indeed of the Holy Spirit and meant for public revelation.

            No way will I put my trust in any man, only in the apostles and those properly chosen by them in apostolic succession, no lone ranger for me.

          • H2o2Bill

            http://www.bible.ca/catholic-apocrypha.htm

            21 reasons why the Apocrypha is not inspired:

            The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the
            Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.

            Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.

            Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.

            These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.

            They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.

            They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different
            deaths in as many different places.

            The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.

            http://www.bible.ca/catholic-apocrypha.htm

          • t. mess

            I was thinking of the Psalms that St, Jerome thought was his “best” translation was from the Hebrew. The church did not agree anyway. Forgive me, I’m getting old!

          • PGMGN

            Should not Peter have known? Should not Judas have known?

          • H2o2Bill

            I’m not following you here could you explain in more detail?

          • PGMGN

            You stated:

            “…If the Catholic church really is illuminated by the Holy Spirit so that men can trust her as “God’s organization”, why was she so wrong about something so simple? Should not the “Holy See” have known?”

            So I asked you if Peter should have known better than to deny Christ? Yes. Should Judas have known better to trust Christ to be the Savior He is instead of the kind of ‘savior’ Judas expected Our Lord to be? Yes.

            That said, the Catholic Church with Peter at its head was established to safeguard the deposit of the Faith and to guide the people of God toward salvation by means of these revealed truths. But men are still men and can choose to act against what they are called to be. That, however, does not negate what God has called them to be (Peter, a sinful man, made the foundation of the Church.)

            That is why attempting to dismantle the lawful authority of the Pope by saying ‘they should have known better’ is no argument. For not all authority is acted upon in the best manner. People make mistakes. God, however, in choosing to establish a hierarchy within His own Church did not err.

          • H2o2Bill

            How do you know what they teach now is the truth then?

            Can you demonstrate this hierarchy from the Bible?

            And please do explain why The Pope is jumping in bed with the money grabbing TV preachers? Could it be the Pope sees the false teachers as easy targets to make a surge in the Ecumenical movement?

          • PGMGN

            Thou art Peter and upon this Rock I will build my Church. That is the foundation, H2o2Bill. Add to that the deference to Peter by the other Apostles going forward in scripture and add to that the early Church fathers who, some of the very first disciples, and there was a decided head. Not a head above being called out, mind you, but a head none the less. Much like a wife should call out her husband when things aren’t quite what they should be, but traditionally speaking, the godly authority in the home rests squarely with him.

            That said, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, that is he is the visible head of the Church here on earth. But if you believe that that means Catholics hold that the Pope is able to mandate willy nilly doctrine or somehow render day night and night day – no. That would be making the steward out to be the King.

            As for Pope Francis’ particular ecumenical style, I do not agree with it at all, to be honest. I’m more old school and tend to hold that shooting from the hip, kindly enough, but with the full truth is the way to go. I am not the Pope, however, and have not been tasked to rein in the mess of fractured Christian denominations. Denominations that have been raised with assorted beliefs, ranging from partly true to completely erroneous to goodness knows what. Catholics included, for many are horrifically ignorant of their own so-called faith.

            My experience, however, rests with reigning in those of my own household who have been reared in a manner which *I* can understand. So my flock expects to be taught in that manner. They respond to it. If I were given a different set of ‘kids’ that might not work at all. Not at all. They have been reared to expect/understand something different. So a different approach may be in order. It may not.

            What I believe the Pope is doing is attempting to find common ground on which to move forward together. Not invite error inside the Church, even though the media would love to spin it up that way. *Instigating* is what they like to do.

            But could you imagine running a household of kids from teens to toddlers where very conversation you have with your wife or your children’s teachers is broadcast to *ALL* the children, the neighbors, and the neighbors children? Your approach with your teenager might be very thoroughly critiqued as being unfair by your 5 year old who is instigated into rebellion and mistrust by the 11 year old who wants a later bedtime for all or no homework or brownies for dinner every night.

            So no, we do not have blind trust in the Pope. He is a man. But he is the man that has been allowed by God, by either his active or permissive will, to hold the Chair of Peter. And Catholics must respect that and abide by the dictates thereof. And I say abide by the dictates in all matters except SIN. For we are called to obey our parents too, but not in sin if we know it to be sinful.

            Hope that explains my position. Goodness knows I can get wordy. Have a great Sunday!

          • Julie

            I agree with your post and likewise have some issues with P Francis.

          • PGMGN

            Prayers for Pope Francis.

          • Julie

            Consistency of faith and practice, and documented sources.
            get a universal Catholic Catechism and read the footnotes that give you the sources.

          • H2o2Bill

            The RCC is in a constant state of flux as what was shown by my question to begin with. I don’t know if you noticed but there were many more questions you have not answers for at the website I posted. Only a matter of time before the RCC bends on moral issues they have announced they are looking into it. Like Same Sec Marriage. What will you say then?

          • Instigator

            That is some of the muddiest Bible interpretation I have ever read. Get out of the satanic church and read your Bible on your own and let the Holy Spirit guide you.

          • PGMGN

            I do read my bible on my own and do as the Holy Spirit commands which is to not work against what He established – that is the Roman Catholic Church.

            So having said as much, how dare you comment that my interpretation of the Bible is muddy in any way. By your logic all I need is the Bible and the Holy Ghost so your appraisal of my interpretation is even more high handed than what you believe the Catholic Church is about.

          • Julie

            Again, these kinds of people gravitate for any kind of thinking…I don’t know if they bothered to read about Ellen White and Joseph Smith who had very similar ideas and reflected the culture of those times. Ellen White was into numerology a form of divination that is condemned in Scripture, same with Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism.

            They cannot reason and if you give them sources, they don’t get it.

          • PGMGN

            These folks gravitate toward Americanism which is what I call Burger King: Have it your way. We have become a generation of lazy bones despite the overwhelming gift of literacy in this country. Opting to dismiss the gifts of discernment and logic in favor of being told what we should think and only using those ‘sources’ that back up what we have been told.

            Combine that with believing that intolerance and blindness is the new tolerant and open minded and there we are. Truth is continually crucified in an ongoing attempt to kill it. The very same has been going on since the beginning of time.

            God bless and thanks for trying, Julie. Your efforts are not wasted, no matter what it may look or feel like.

          • H2o2Bill

            If you want Christians to listen to you use Scripture otherwise it will be futile. Stop trying to yoke up Christians with Ellen White and Joseph Smith. It would be a much better if you started asking yourself why is the Pope jumping in bed with Islam when Islam is slaughtering Catholics at a alarming rate. When a Church goes astray we don’t sit here and make excuses for them. We say it’s wrong. Just like the other day when the Presbyterian came out in favor of Same Sex Marriage. People said it was wrong they didn’t make excuses for them. Why is the Pope hanging out with the money grabbing TV preachers? Bible believeing Christians have known for a long time about Kenneth Copeland and all of his false teachings. The warning has gone out on such men. But the Pope seems to be enjoying hooking up with Kenneth and company. Wake up and repent.

          • Jesse

            Peter wasn’t there

          • PGMGN

            Peter was there, that is alive, when Christ was taken to be crucified. Should Peter have known better than to run and hide and deny Christ? Yes.

            I am making a comparison, Jesse.

          • Instigator

            Nope. Study it. Peter NEVER went to Rome.

          • PGMGN

            You are beyond my help, Instigator. You advise me to study when you are seemingly incapable of reading a simple post. But then, by the name you seemingly chose of your own free will, you seek nothing but to instigate.

          • Instigator

            Should not Peter known what? He never stepped foot in Rome.
            The RCC is rooted in Mithraism. It never was of God. Never will be.

          • Jesse

            No, the RCC gave the world nothing but added paganism to the gospel of Christ and it is my prayer that many or most soon see the real light.

        • Hondo Stone

          It is written:
          “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

          THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE CATHOLIC
          CHURCH DOES,

          and therefore it is anti-Christ!

          These so called “Bishops, priests are satan’s ministers who deceive and bring multitudes down to eternal ruin.

          “Come out of her my people”

          There is salvation in Jesus Christ
          alone ( Acts 4:12 ) and NOT in any other name under heaven!

          No, no salvaton, no help, and no
          hope, not in Mary, nor by calling your so called “priests”
          “father” which is FORBIDDEN by God Almighty, nor by confessing your
          sins to those sinful, rebellious men you call “father”, nor by water
          baptism, or first communion, or doing the stations of the cross, nor by praying
          of the damnable ‘rosary”, nor by lighting your candles, nor praying for
          the dead, nor by doing anything you deem good, nor by the keeping of your holy
          days, nor by attending your so called “mass” each Sunday, nor by
          trusting in the so called visions of Fatima, nor by praying to Mary, nor
          praying to your statues, nor having statues on your lawn, on your dashboards,
          nor praying your reprehensible, repetitious so called “rosary, nor having
          those damnable rosary beads hanging from your rear view mirrors, nor praying to
          any of the saints, nor by giving every cent you have to the poor, nor getting
          your forehead blackened on your so called “ash Wednesday” nor fasting
          during what you call “lent”, nor the partaking of communion, nor any
          other way or work!

          What ABOMINATION!

          Did I leave anything out?

          The way of Catholicism is the way to
          destuction for her ways lead down to death and her guests are in the depths of
          hell.

          All who think otherwise are damned
          God tells us in His Word, if they repent not of this and turn not to Him for
          forgiveness in Christ, and Christ alone, and then get out of that DAMNABLE
          ABOMINABLE SATANIC CHURCH they will surely perish in their sins!

          It is written: “Faithful are the
          wounds of a friend” and therefore I have faithfully given the truth with
          the hope that someone reading will by the grace of God have their eyes opened!

          Each and every time anything posted here that is
          related to the Catholic church, I will do my best to post this comment as a witness in Jesus name, against this abomination!

          see more 1 Voting has changed. Learn more

        • Hondo Stone

          Your so called “Mass” would be more appropriately described as all those who follow the damnable teachings of the damnable Catholic church will be thrown into a “Mass” grave of darkness and there they will remain forever!

          Come out of her My people!

          • Gallibus

            You have blasphemed!

          • Hondo Stone

            In your unwashed blinded eyes, yes, maybe I have blasphemed against your god!

          • Julie

            What is that?

          • Instigator

            Hahaha! The pope is of the Devil! Can’t you see that? He does not serve the people of God he serves his father the Devil until he comes to a true understanding of the Gospel. He is under strong delusion fulfilling the will of God. Saying that is not blasphemy but believing the pope is your mediator on earth surely is!

          • Julie

            So you know the Devil???

          • Instigator

            Yes, and notice that the Catholic Church keeps crucifying Him. He is always depicted as dying on the cross or as a babe in a woman’s arms, etc. They papacy is an abomination in the eyes of God. It never was Christian and never will be nor will the Protestant offshoots ever be “God’s Church.”

          • Julie

            Only those with the Crucified Lord know He is the link to the Heavenly Father.

            You are not saved. Only those who do the will of the Father, who pick up their cross, will be saved.

            The Cross is used as meditation to help people accept their difficulties with grace from the Lord. Nothing about crucifying Him..actually you are crucifying believers who follow the Cross and embrace it.

          • Julie

            you don’t even know what the Mass is. So don’t condemn that which you have no grasp of.

        • Instigator

          The papacy and all of her daughter protestant sects are not God’s church.

          There is absolutely no doubt that it is Christ who is building and edifying His church. Let’s look at that verse and the verses around it. This section of scripture is one of the most abused parts of all of God’s Word.

          Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
          Mat 16:14 And they said, Some [ say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
          Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
          Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
          Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
          Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

          As I would hope you are already aware, the Greek word for Peter is ‘petros,’ Strong’s number 4074, and the word for “this rock” is ‘petra,’ Strong’s number 4073. Strong’s definition for ‘petros’ is “a piece of a rock,” and Strong’s definition for ‘petra,’ is “a massive rock.” Christ is actually preparing Peter for what He is about to reveal to him about who His spiritual father is at this point in Peter’s life. Christ is telling Peter just how much Peter depends on Christ. And the world has twisted Christ’s words to make them say that Christ’s church is built upon a man. Here are the very next words Christ spoke to this apostle whom Catholicism calls ‘the rock on which the church stands.’

          Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
          Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
          Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

          Far from being “petra,’ the rock on which Christ’s church is truly built, Peter was, at this point, just as we all are at this point of our walk, an unconverted little pebble, born of our father the devil:

          Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
          Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

          But we don’t “continue in His word.” We all “leave our first love,” and are born of our father the devil.

          Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

          Here is the true rock, the true “petra” upon which His church is built:

          1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
          1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
          1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
          1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
          1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

          Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostle s and prophet s, J esus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

          Twisting God’s Words to make them appear to say that Peter is the rock on which Christ has built His church is nothing short of blasphemous. It is a doctrine of “wood, hay and stubble,” which the one billion Catholics of today will have burnt out of them in their appointed time.

          The Pope when visiting the United States for the first time in twenty five years and it is sad to hear all the bishops referring to this verse of scripture as proof of why the Catholic Church is the original Christian church. They do not do so overtly, but they do so by calling the Pope “Peter’s successor,” as if these words of our Lord are for Peter and Peter alone. But the Catholic Church most assuredly is not the church which Christ built upon Himself. He and He alone is that “Rock.” The Catholic Church, and all of her Protestant daughters, is the church which was established by the spirit of men such as Phygellus, and Hermogenes. Men who withstand the words of “our Lord and His Christ.”

          2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
          2Ti 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
          2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

          • Julie

            Here we go….so you are a Jehovah??? America in the 1800′s is the answer to religion???

          • Instigator

            Do not subscribe to religion. Only the commandments, laws, and statutes of God. 1800′s? I am well aware of the origins of the JWs, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. They are not God’s doing. Neither is the papacy. For what it is worth, God is not religious. Religious things are created by mankind. I cannot understand why people are so enamored with following other people. Christ said follow Him. It is quite simple really. Salvation cannot be obtained via a priest of the RCC. That is utter nonsense. Christ is the sole mediator and the means of salvation. Everything is idolatry and a diversion from the Word. God does not need a religious organization to do His will and to minister to His people. The Bible is quite clear on all of this. The problem is people have their heads so full of noise. You have to listen to the Holy Spirit or else people gloss right over the simplicity of Christ. The darker the days get the more noise. Delusion is sent by God. And it is for a reason. Too much is blamed on the Devil, not enough people take responsibility for walking in the ways of the Lord, and very few want to admit that God chastises those who are His. The average Christian thinks life should be easy for them. The exact opposite of what Christ taught. Religion is deadly.

    • H2o2Bill

      (1Ti 4:1-6) But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer. In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.

      • PGMGN

        Abstaining from food as an exercise in self control is a good thing, H2o2Bill. And nobody is forbidding marriage either. We have free will to choose. But learning that we do not have the free will to choose everything at the same time is good. No doubt that’s why Our Lord said there were those who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. That is those who sacrifice what is lawful (sacrificing something you have no right to is no sacrifice) out of love of God.

        You would not say that one who chooses the law is forbidden from medical school.. It is an informed choice. Much like the Catholic priesthood.

    • Instigator

      Things will continue on as they always have. There is no revival. There is no “awakening.” There is those that God calls out by the Holy Spirit. Heaven is within and the body is the temple of the Lord. People are spiritually blind and continually look for physical manifestations revealing their true state. They look for signs and wonders outside rather than walk with the Lord on the inside. While so-called “Christians” are busy pointing fingers and shouting out who will be able to stand have a very obscure vision of what is really happening in the end days.

    • Julie

      I am reading it could be Russia, starting in the Ukraine, that will be God’s instrument to destroy humanity for its sins…another is the probable collapse of Plant 4 at Fukushima…If it happens, it has sunk over 3 ft, Japan will be toast and its collapse will cause serious damage throughout the world…wormwood, cherynoble…Ukraine…

      The world will be punished by nuclear fire 1/3 of our waters undrinkable.

  • Keith

    Rev 21:27 And there shall by no means enter into it whatever is unclean, neither anyone doing abomination and falsehood,1 but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. Footnote: 1See 22:15, and 2 Thess. 2:11.

    Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those1 doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. Footnotes: 1See Mt. 19:17.
    Rev 22:15 “But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.1 Footnote: 1See 21:27, 2 Thess. 2:11.

    Mat 19:17 And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”

    2Th 2:11 And for this reason Elohim sends them a working of delusion, for them to believe the falsehood,

    Isa 66:23 “And it shall be that from New Moon to New Moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” declares יהוה.
    Isa 66:24 “And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me1. For their worm shall not die, and their fire not be quenched. And they shall be repulsive to all flesh!” Footnote: 1See 24:6, 34:2-3, Ps. 110:6, Jer. 25:33.

  • Mary Shinn

    Wow! No coincidences. I just quoted Scripture referring to the “awakening”, Catholic watchers know it as the “Warning.” From Revelation 6:15-17, asking who will be able to stand?

    Look at this Protestant prophecy given Mitt Jeffords. Truly, I posted before I read it.
    It was just put up.
    http://www.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=47660&PN=1

    June 29, 2014

    Who is going to abide in the day of my coming? Who shall stand when I appear?

    And…

    Notice the first sentence, the word “abide.” This is from the original writings, King
    James’ translators changed “abide” to dwell. In the Gospel, Our Lord tells you how you abide in Him and He in you. Jesus is preparing non-Catholic Christians to accept the summit of the Faith, His presence in the Holy Eucharist. See verse 56 in the KJV.

    John 6:57
    He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him

    • t. mess

      Catholics are not the only ones that do that…

  • Bonita Lay

    Dudes and Dudettes… As I read all the discussions..you guys got into the SQUABBLES again..and SECULARISM is breathing down our backs.. Get smart folks..

  • Gallibus

    God loves the Islamists too – they are His children and He died for them too. Pray for their conversion as a matter of spiritual charity.

    • New granny

      Yes …He does love them ! Yes we should and do pray for them to believe that The Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God . His word also says…14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14 King James (KJV)

  • Mean Hon

    Our common enemy is Satan and his elitist, new-world order henchmen, who has infiltrated every organization in the world. For Christians, pray for the salvation of souls. Additionally, pray the rosary to destroy Communism – as foretold in Fatima Promises.

    Communism, which is engulfing the world, will be destroyed when the Pope consecrates Russia and only Russia, to Mary’s immaculate heart.

    • Hondo Stone

      If you pray to Mary, you are yet unsaved and in all your sins and will be damned forever!

      The Bible is very clear about this!

      Turn from this damnable Catholic church and all its damnable teachings and turn to Christ ALONE, while you still have the breath of life in you!

      • Ken Faivor

        You should lay off the condemnation Hondo. Its not a sin unless they know its a sin. The Lord is very merciful to ignorance; be gentle.

        Jas_4:17 To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

        • Julie

          That just goes to show what false Christianity does to Sacred Scripture…I pray to God to protect me from those who use their religion to hide their malice. It also gives such a bad impression to people outside of religion.

          • Hondo Stone

            You call the Scripture sacred and yet you deny what it tells us and commands us!
            You hold to your abominable church doctrines that make void the Word of God.
            Jesus spoke much of such as your church and it’s followers!

        • Hondo Stone

          You should read your Bible MORE Ken!

          I will speak the Truth of God’s Word no matter who it offends!
          ALL SIN IS SIN!

          I Jesus Christ alone is not a persons Lord and Savior, then they are DAMNED!

          Whomsoever you pray to, that is your god!
          Just for starters, these people pray to Mary, and the saints.
          Will you be their mediator and say they are ignorant?

          You are making excuses for sin because you say they are ignorant!

          Some may be and that is why I post what I do that they may consider and come out of that abominable church and come to know the Truth because ignorance will not save you nor excuse you!

          Most are willingly ignorant and like the salvation plan of the catholic church, and Mary as their back up mediator rather than the salvation plan of God.

          It is a damnable church leading to the very pit of hell no matter how sweet they may bring their damnable doctrines to the masses!

          I know many dear people who belong to this damnable church and they are sadly lost, blind and on their way to the pit while thinking within themselves “all is well with my soul”!

          • Ken Faivor

            Pro_15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath; But a grievous word stirreth up anger.

      • Julie

        don’t ask your friends or any thing else to pray for you.

        • Hondo Stone

          I have many dear brothers and sisters who KNOW Christ and we pray always about everything and for one another.
          I surley would NEVER ask a Catholic to pray for me, EVER!

    • abbygirl08
      • Julie

        He is speaking tongue in cheek.

        It has been said the West has Christ without the Cross and the communists have the Cross with out Christ.

        Communism was responsible for millions of death. He is merely pointing to the concern to share necessities with others.

        You don’t know him, you don’t know his context.

        But people jump on anything he says to prove something…

        • H2o2Bill

          They say all sorts of things don’t they. Communism has killed more people than I care to remember the number 200 million comes to mind. Communist do nothing for the poor except use them so a few can be served. North Korea is Communist look that mad man over their according to the Pope is a closet Christian. This kind of thinking is fantasy land it’s madness. I don’t care what the Pope says Communism kills.

    • One Icon

      People forget that the Pope is a Jesuit. And all Jesuit’s swear an oath to destroy Protestantism. That sounds like an oath full of Christ’s love doesn’t it?

  • James Staten

    Statement from Staten: I hope some of you are enjoying this, but this is just a snippet of what people believe when they are biblically ignorant. As I said in a previous post I attended a Catholic College, but that wasn’t good enough because it needs to be a Catholic University? Well they have since been upgraded does that count? While attending this College I dated a girl, who had been raised Catholic. She attended Catholic Schools all her life, and she swore up and down that the Nuns during her early years taught that if one is doing anything such as adultery, fornicating, murder or you can make up the Sin? It doesn’t matter, as long as when you die you have in your possession a certain Medal that she described to be worn at all times. Then you go immediately to Heaven!!! PLEASE…This is the foolishness and the traditions of men that make void the word of God, or when Mary has the sun spinning like Pete’s eyes on the Little Rascals as they watched the sun in Medjugorje? I could go on, but I will assume that most people who aren’t Catholic, who are readings these posts, but are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ aren’t here to bash Catholics. We are in Shock that some people who align with the name of Christ are getting in bed with this movement? The first post I saw yesterday was bashing “Protestants”. I have heard over the last many months several Catholics who are in Shock from the words coming out of this man’s mouth. Does scripture mean nothing? Does he make it up as he goes along? There is an End Time church which is Christless. Chrislam for an example? Allah and the God of the Bible can’t be, because one is nonexistent. Yet this Pope has Abbas at the Vatican to pray for peace in the Middle East. Islam teaches that Allah doesn’t have a Son. This saying is written by my understanding around the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount ..Allah has no Son…John tells us in scripture that anybody who denies the Son is an Anti-Christ Spirit? What can light and darkness have in common? Nothing!!!! What will it take? I have numerous posts, please see them?. Again Peter said listen to Paul.(Look it up) The Gospel during this dispensation of Grace is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4….Believe that and you are Saved ….(Short Version)….James

    • Hondo Stone

      ALL who follow the damnable catholic church and its damnable doctrines are damned lest they come out of her and seek the Lord ALONE!

      To deny this is to deny what the Bible tells us over and over again and yet most will follow that damned church!

      • Julie

        damnable your statements.

        You have no right to judge others, especially that you do not undertand.

        • Hondo Stone

          Damned because the Bible says so Diane.
          You know not the Scriptures that is why you say the things you say and follow the deceptions that you follow.

          I am not judging any individuals but those damnable teachings of your damnable church and by doing so you are offended, but I am being faithful in speaking out against this devilish church you love.

          You trust your damnable church and its leaders.

          Right from the very Word of God.

          ALL LIARS SHALL BE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!
          How is that for being damned!
          Do you want to argue with God or correct Him?

          Now, I ask you to tell me the error in any of my statments about your church that you say I am in error of!
          You have thus far failed to show me!
          Your praying to Mary and the saints,
          Your calling the priests “father”
          Your praying the “rosary”
          Your making the “stations of the cross”
          Your bowing down and genuflection to statues
          Your teaching of pergatory
          The list goes on and on and on in that damnable church you hold so dear to your heart, the one that will drag you by your very soul to the pit of hell with all alike who trust not in the Word of God but in your church and its heresy!
          Now prove me wrong!

          • Julie

            You are so so wrong and so ill informed. You get the damnation out of your being. It is in you, buddy.

            You need to find some other religion that can bring you to God…your key to reading Scripture is hatred and it doesn’t add up.

          • Hondo Stone

            Damnation comes from God alone!
            It will be fearful and it will be eternal

            He will send all who teach and follow that which is contrary to His Word to the pit of hell.

            Damnation is a very unpleasant word and thought and THAT is why I write it again and again to emphasise it’s fear!

            Unlike you and your brothers and sisters in the damnable catholic church, I have NO religion, I have Christ!

            Speaking the truth of salvation and damnation is NEVER offensive to God’s true children and they are commanded to preach that gospel to all who will hear.

            The Good News of the Gospel is being saved from eternal damnation!

            It’s in the Bible if you will just read it!

          • Julie

            sick people talk like this. It is not of the Lord and it is based on falsehoods.

          • Hondo Stone

            You know not the Truth Julie.
            You have been greatly deceived!
            Satan has you in his grasp!
            All I have said is very biblical
            Nothing you have said is biblical

            Telling the truth is never to be frowned upon but by those who hate it.

          • Hondo Stone

            Come on now, you say I am so wrong.
            Show me from my above comment on what your church teaches and instruct me as to my errors lest you be show to be an empty cloud without rain.
            You have avoided this for some time now… hmmmmmmm

          • Julie

            You are a sick person.

          • Hondo Stone

            I didn’t think you had the courage to answer with Scripture.
            You are as an empty vessel with your false doctrines.
            I rest my case.

            It is written “Resist the devil and he will flee from you”

            I was once very sick in a life of sin….Great sin!
            Praise the Lord, He called me, saved me, justified me and I am now His, and He is Mine.

            Yes Julie, I am sick with Love for my Lord!

          • Julie

            I read through your post again and it is sick sick sick.

            You are in some kind of hate sect.

        • timetorun

          Excuse me Julie, we aren’t right to judge??? what does Paul SAY?

          1Cor. 5:12 “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside
          the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Drive out
          the wicked person from among you.”

          its pretty clear the church is about the business of judging the church)

          Context: this is about driving out the sexually immoral from the midst of the church due to lack of repentance.

          verse 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

          7. Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.

          11 But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater …

          12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”

          Paul is instructing the pastors of the Corinthian church to remove this person from their congregation so that they might repent.

          • Julie

            If people would make rational judgments based on facts…that would be tolerable..but these comments sound like they came out of Chick Magazine.

          • Instigator

            Then by your own words…you judge others.

          • timetorun

            please listen to the scriptures and let them direct what you believe instead of subjective emotions or the culture.

          • Julie

            It is too late, they have damned me.

        • Instigator

          In what way did he judge a person’s state?

    • Robert Bbb

      Its good that nuns took that vocation and many nuns live simple and prayerful lives. Some nuns dont explain/understand correctly catholic teachings.__

      There is a certain “metal” or “cloth” (*) that if worn can provide divine protection and prevent a soul from going to hell(not prevent from pains of purgatory). But there are certain conditions and a person living a sinful lifestyle usually would not wear it for they think and seek things of the world, not careing for things of heaven. Catholicism teaches to seek the mercy of Jesus, ask forgiveness of sins, and turn away from all sins. A person can avoid the pains of purgatory and go straight to heaven if they follow faithfully the steps of Jesus.__

      A person can go to a catholic school and leave learning little about christianity. You get what you put into it also helps. A faith formation starts at home with parents teaching the children and also at Church. Many catholic schools have taken secular ideas and teachings.
      (*)The fervent prayer of a rightous person is very powerful, James 5:16

      • James Staten

        Well that’s why when in doubt read the directions!!!

      • http://uncontrolledopposition.com/ Keith Kampschaefer

        Robert, The Scriptures say, “As in the days of Noah, so shall also the days of the coming of the Son of man be.” Mat 24:37. It says they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving into marriage right up to the day Noah entered the ark. When those non-believers, who were not protected from by ark were washed away, did any of them go to “purgatory?”

        • Robert Bbb

          Non believers(evil doers) can’t go to purgatory since they have no faith in Jesus, those in Noah’s time disobeyed the way’s of God. Purgatory is painful but is still a gift since they are saved and in time will see the face of God.

          • Instigator

            Chapter and verse in the Bible please?

          • http://uncontrolledopposition.com/ Keith Kampschaefer

            There is no purgatory Robert. Either you’re in the ark (Jesus) or you’re on the outside, washed away for all eternity.

      • Julie

        The modernists took over so many schools. I don’t have the link right now but a communist American woman attested to the fact that over 1,000 communists entered our seminaries and that of Canada.

        At present, none of the Canadian bishops believe in Humanae Vitae. So the USA is better…

        People also don’t realize it was then Cardinal Ratzinger who took over the sex abuse cases from a cardinal. He was removing a bishop a month.

        A priest told my friend not to put her kids into catholic school for they would lose their faith.

        Mine went to a school that is out of state. The kids volunteered to go to daily Mass, every day like Sunday. The pastor used to be the chaplain for the city orphans. You could have 10 kids and pay $1000 a month, and it ended up number one academically in the entire archdiocese. Then after he died, the liberals came in big time, and there was much upset in the school. I don’t know what happened to daily Mass for the family and parents. Its test scores went down. In the meantime when the pastor was alive, he told many of his former students lost their faith when they went to high school or college. I saw old pictures of children in grade school back then and every child had Christ’s eyes.

        As Cardinal Wuerl stated, the tsunami of the world has poured over the Church. Our bishop told us yesterday we must be ready to face tremendous challenges…and by other priests…be ready to die.

        Seeing the anti-Catholic posts here, it is like being in a death to me.

        • Instigator

          Ratzinger…Hitler’s Youth….Grand Inquisitor.

    • Julie

      I went to Catholic school with Irish nuns and thought I would never put my children in Catholic schools. but I did and they all remember it and like all else, it was swept over by the ‘tsunami’ of the world.
      About the medal and saying it will save you, I doubt very much your friend knew the promises of the Miraculous Medal. I read a communist infiltrator, a priest who wrote about his double life, how he wanted to seduce this young woman and she wore this medal of Mary, and how it prevented him from doing evil to her.
      I worked for a Neo Marxist PhD candidate who hated Catholics. He wished he wasn’t married. I was his administrative assistant for a short while. Anyway, he walked me up to the house and with the glass door, he saw the image of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, the image of Mother Mary, and a plate of rosaries on it. His eyes got very big and he left in a hurry. I decided after speaking to him that day I was not going to see him again. When I called to tell him that, his other assistant told me he would not have me back.

      You have to be very very very careful making most profound and condemning statements about my faith,especially when they are made by a young girl who is cynical herself. I doubt very much she understood much of anything.

      You need to also understand that the 20th century was the age of apostasy within the Church and Pope Leo XIII had an inner locution seeing it, that the devil would be given 100 years to destroy the Church from within. He consecrated the world to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary in 1899.

      There were many who should not have been ordained. There are religious who became so because they did not have the means to obtain a career in a different way.

      Right now there are fabrications coming about the ‘Madeleine Laundries’ in Ireland and the 800 children found in a so called septic tank want were simply not true but misconstrued and blown clear out of proportion.

      I am amazed at how inhumane sectarian Christians are towards Catholics, refusing to believe what we actually believe, looking for any scandal to justify themselves, or refusing to get educated in the history of faith.

      St. Peter, I was thinking of him this morning…and he appeared to be the most inept and impetuous and opaque of the apostles. Yet Christ chose Peter to be the head of His church.

      It shows that Christ picked Peter because Peter needed Him and His grace the most.

      The point is the Catholic Church is about reconciling sinners back to God and making present in every generation the sacrificial Blood of our Lord on the altar.

      When I read comments and your interpretations of Scripture along with the misunderstandings and other remarks, it all the more reassures me I am in the right Church.

      People here do not know how they come across to others.

      Anyway, God bless you.

    • Julie

      The Pope is simply coming to the same level as to these people’s faith. He is not comprising Christianity. We are suffering very much for the liturgical Christians in Iraq and Syria as well as Egypt who are not bible based but have endured in the Lord for 2000 years.

      Jesus said will there be any faith left when He returns??? He is speaking to all of us, not just Catholics.

      But the slurs, attacks on my faith and my Church are terrible right now and a former Evangelical warned they would come, using Revelations to ‘prove we are the antiChrist’…when in fact our faith has always upheld the sanctity of human life.

      The Catholic faith is the foundation of Western Civilization. Hard to believe but it is true.

      • Instigator

        Judgment begins with those who say they are His. Those who can stand the heat as they are tried by fire will prevail with Him. The rest will be busy quibbling and scoffing.

        • Julie

          Your words really burn….it is getting hot you are already putting me into a living hell. LOL.

    • PGMGN

      James, nobody should be ignorant of the bible. Your previous girlfriend had a very incorrect notion of the Miraculous Medal. (I’m assuming this is what she was referencing.)

      And, yes, many Catholics are taken aback by the words of the Holy Father. The man needs our prayers, much like a father of a family needs the prayerful support of his family to do that which he is called to do. Because a family without its visible head is highly vulnerable and that is precisely what Satan wants. Sheep with no shepherd.

  • James Staten

    My last response on this subject!!! Drudge headline as I write this: “Pope says Communist are closet Christians” People don’t you get it, you don’t make it up as you go along? Just make Christians out of anyone you want?

    Abbas is a Christian then because he prayed at the Vatican? Even though his god “Allah” doesn’t have a Son. Poor Mary’s Jesus…No room for him still!!!!

    • Robert Bbb

      You just seek to criticize, you deform and twist the facts. Did you even read the article ?
      The pope said, ”
      “I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. The flag of the poor is Christian. Poverty is at the centre of the Gospel,” he said, citing biblical passages about the need to help the poor, the sick and the needy.

      “Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, 20 centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: ‘but then you are Christian’,” he said, laughing. It was a reference that communism have taken and copied some christian actions.

      • Julie

        Broken minds, fractured beings, hearts in darkness and self-righteousness blind them from the Truth.

  • Julie

    TRUNEWS…I wonder why this site is continuing to allow such diatribe. These are extremist sects, the chosen ones.

    • Hondo Stone

      Why don’t you pray to Mary, maybe she can help you with your problem!

    • Tom york

      The Catholic church is the most extremist denomination their is. Extreme in miss directed allegiance to Jesus Christ. Do you believe it is right to bow down to a statue and kiss its foot.
      Do you think that is going to get you into Heaven dear Julie.
      You have to confess you sins to Jesus Christ. He still lives today. He loves you more than you will ever know Julie.

      • Julie

        You are the one who is stating extreme comments because they are not based on truth.

        • Tom york

          Dear Julie – do you read the Bible. Most all the epistles in the Bible are for correction and instruction for you to h ear and
          l ear n. And they got it from Jesus Christ who was God in flesh. Jesus is the only begotten = “unique Son of God their is. God made himself a body and then stepped into that Body and he was called Jesus Christ. God was the only one that could redeem mankind Rev. 5 tells the story. God loved you so much that he “swear by himself to redeem mankind”. And He did it for the whole world. But also knew the whole world would not receive their salvation that was freely given to them. God bless you Julie – In Jesus name.

          • Julie

            Do you know anything about the universal Christian faith which is the Latin and Orthodox churches who can provide documentation that our faith in the Lord is literally from the Apostles, the only chosen witnesses of Our Lord?

            Do you know the liturgy of the Mass and how it contains the readings of the Old and New Testament, Psalms and the Gospel, and if you were to go to Mass daily for 3 years you would have witnessed the entire Sacred Scriptures?

            Do you know that the Universal Christian Church chose all the books with the exception of St. John The Evangelist, Hebrews and questions of St James’ epistle…only that they needed time to verify the authors were authentic?

            Do you ever bother to read anything truthful about our faith?

            Did you know that Scriptures, the form of worship, the episcopacy, and basics of the creed were already in place by 100 AD???

            Do you know anything about the Liturgy of the Hours, and its foundation on Sacred Scripture?

            Did you know the majority of resources for the Catholic Catechism are based on Scripture, the rest on early church fathers?…

            You don’t know what you are talking about.

            Stop the abusing and maligning good Catholic people and the Church as it is comprised of the same people all over the world.

            What form of Christianity are you?

          • Tom york

            Dear Julie – I did not say their are no good Catholic’s. Their are many good people in the world. They go to church cause they want to be good people.
            And Yes I have studied much of your theology.
            But the New Creation is still a mystery today in most denominational church’s. The New birth is receiving the “Holy Spirit into your Soul,and body -Acts 2:38. You change from a “Terrestrial being” into a “Celestial being” and that starts the New Birth or Creation of Sons and daughters of God. 1 Cor.15 -Apostle Paul explains it very simply. As does all the Gospels.
            I pray that God blesses you to see this. Im not against you Im for you and all humanity.

          • Julie

            I go to church for Christ, am called to Christ, my life is in Him. I received my infant baptism, and have been Catholic my entire life, and I have experienced the eternal moment….I have attend Mass regularly and it is truly the connection between heaven and earth.

            To remain in Christ and die in Him is not to experienced death again…as my entire life has been like a series of deaths.

            It is very very very wrong for people to condemn an entire body of believers going back 2000 years.

            I can never learn enough about Christ through my Church. Never. And so many have contributed to the knowledge and experience of living Him out.

            Charismata and so on are gifts of the Holy Spirit, the most pronounced for one who has had little faith prior.

            What is important is living in the will of God and seeking it constantly.

            Good night and God bless you.

          • Tom york

            God bless you as well Julie. Its good to discuss the Word of God. No matter what we call ourselves dying out to Christ’s will is ultimate experience. Because without HIM we could never do it. The “Mark of God” is the “Seal” of the believers Character. As the Mark of the Beast is serving the beast within = carnal within and doing its will. Its been a good experience to talk to you. Lord bless you in all your endeavor’s for Christ will. Bro. Tom

          • Julie

            Thank you. Tom Nash’s book, ‘Biblical Roots of the Mass’. People who understand — and experience — the Incarnate Word of God can see all the foundation of Scripture in the Mass.

            Fr Gobbi’s take on 666: First 600 years, Islam. The next 600 years: Fragmentation of Christianity, Descartes, ‘I think, therefore I exist’ leading to the Renaissance – independent of God, to the next 600 years…Man making himself god. We are now at the culmination of human beings not needing God and eating the forbidden fruit..taking God’s place and lording it over others, deciding who lives and who dies, beginning with the innocent, the unborn children.

            the Woman of Rev 12 is the Church modelled on Mary, dying to self and seeking constant contemplation of the Lord and His will, who are sustained by God in the desert of this world.

            This book fell out of my book closet two days ago…and the first letter…dated in 1991, ‘the world chastisement is now to begin.’ I don’t know where it began.

            But there are so many signs around us. We must die to self and live in Him. I am ridding my house of things I don’t need, cutting back on meals, fasting more, praying penitential prayers for the perseverance of the just and the conversion of sinners…as requested by Our Lady of Fatima…the only safe in this world where our faith won’t be destroyed by the ‘tsunami of the world’ is in Mary’s Immaculate Heart…the woman fleeing to the desert.

            This faith I share is the same of those shared by our popes going back to Pope Leo XIII who foresaw the 20th century the worst and seeing our Church attempted to be destroyed by Satan. It was devotion to Mary that helped many keep their eyes on the Lord in the Catholic Church and persevere amidst alot of marginalization within our own parishes. Priests, bishops, and cardinals were likewise marginalized by the ‘modernists’, and their power is now beginning to be broken.

            Have a Blessed Day!

          • Instigator

            Are you really so unread as to believe that God is unable to save sinners outside of the RCC? Wow. Now that is absurd.

    • H2o2Bill

      Would it be better if TruNews got your approval of all the post before they allowed them to be seen by the public.

    • Instigator

      Yes, like a true Catholic, OFF WITH THERE HEADS! All who oppose the RCC.

  • GustAdlph

    The Catholic Church is a false religion, and either this or the next pope will be the false prophet. Evangelicals should have nothing to do with the RCC.

    • Robert Bbb

      There will be a false prophet(anti pope), that doesn’t mean a true pope is evil. Many like throwing away the baby with the bath water.

      • GustAdlph

        We’ll have to wait and see what the Lord does.

      • Instigator

        There is no true pope. They are all based on fraud.

    • Jesse

      Generally speaking the RCC is most likely Satan’s counterfeit version of the Christian Church. He counterfeits everything from God,(that is well known).

      • Julie

        How and why?

        what form is yours??? SDA? Mormon? Jehovah Witnesses…these are all about 150 years old…Ellen White was a numerologist and Joseph Smith was a charlatan and both were involved with divination and make the same claims…

        As if there was no Christianity until these sects appeared in anti-Catholic mid 1800′s. Preposterous…can’t you see you are duped??

        • Instigator

          And the popes are based on a fraud. The RCC did not come from the Jews who came out of Judaism and embraced the teachings of Christ.

        • Jesse

          Not associated with any of those or any other ‘cult’ groups. The two churches that I attend go by independent full Gospel Christian Churches. Full gospel churches generally allow themselve to change their doctrine is proven wrong by scripture. Many churches claiming to be christian (RCC) won’t reconsider their teachings no matter how much scripture is presented to them. Don’t think I’ve been duped, the sin of Catholicism is plain and undeniable, and since most of it has been detailed in this thread, you sound a little silly by still beating your head on the wall. Thousands have wised up, what’s holding you back?

        • Jesse

          The early Church could not have evolved into Catholicism without a lot of outside influence.

      • Julie

        I would agree and so would any devout Catholic including any good pope. You go to any Catholic site and ask them who were the bad popes, they who know of them would tell you.

        It is the Lord Who saves us — not man — with our cooperation through grace. We know all this since grade one…for those who have ‘good soil’.

        True religion calls us to die to self and come to the Lord and for those who do not know Him yet, those kind are inclined to be kind to other people…unless they go through some big conversion after living a bad life.

      • Julie

        again……our faith, our beliefs, our practices are the same for 2000 years. So I don’t know how Satanic it can be.

        If people would only study church history, they would see this belief is not true.

        IF what you say the Latin Church is Satanic, and subsequently the Orthodox Eastern Church is not, when both are the same in belief and practice transcending linguistic and cultural issues, then the Latin Church and subsequently the Orthodox Church would die out a long time ago, no conversion by Russia, and there would not have been any Christianity due to rule by the bottom in congregational style and no branch documenting its history.

    • dpharisee2010

      YOU really think every reader here Catholics or NON-catholics are so STUPID? U think they do not read that you can fool them like Satan wanted to do for 2000 years. Oh prince of the heavenly hosts by the power of GOD, thrust into hell Satan and all the evil followers.

    • Julie

      Why don’t you read the catechism and then come back.

      That is the problem.

      • Instigator

        Right. That is like telling a Moslem to read the Book of Mormon.

        • Gallibus

          If a Moslem is arguing with a Mormon then he should read the Book of Mormon.

    • Julie

      Have you ever even bothered to read one encyclical? If you did, you wouldn’t be saying such things.

      Certain people put such fears in others they are terrified to near anything Catholic, let alone a pope’s writings…which do not all contain the same level of truth.

      First degree of truth is the Interpreter…ensuring the understanding of faith in Christ is preserved and passed down in the life of Christ, that involves teachings and practice, and how the Lord wanted us to worship Him. The Church is the interpreter…

      The Church is not end in herself, but simply as a mother to guide and lead us to Him.

      Being an ecclesiastic or a simple lay person, or a pope, does not guarantee salvation.

      The pope to speak infallibly only speaks on what is contained in our Creed and catechism. People don’t understand that. He speaks for today’s time. Popes say things all the time. But we know when he is speaking pastorally.

      Pope Francis speaks off the cuff all the time. So it is very important you get the full text of what he is saying and I don’t always like that style. He is already being criticized by all sorts of people in the church including high ranking priests and cardinals. He says things that cause people to think other than what he means.

      IF he leads us pastorally…the only way…into things that violate our teachings…we ignore him. We ignore the pope when he speaks pastorally on his opinion.

      Pope Benedict was meticulous in being clear when he spoke of his own opinion.

      I hope that helps because any Catholic can pick up immediately when any cleric talks off base…and they generally realize it when they open their mouth and most clear up what they just said pretty quick. When someone is off base, we no longer sense we are in this communion with the Holy Trinity…through the Good Shepherd.

      • GustAdlph

        Please refrain from put-downs, “Have you ever even bothered to read one encyclical?” I had 16 years of Catholic education, so I was well taught about encyclicals. When the Holy Spirit led me to be Born Again by showing me my sins were all “paid in full” at the cross, I trusted Jesus alone for salvation. When you ask the Holy Spirit to show you who Christ is, He does.

        • Julie

          I have spent a number of years in professional training through my archdiocese and what I shared with them is what I have been taught.

          It is useless and you are setting yourself up to be abused, as well as allowing false witness to blaspheme the faith and Church instituted by Christ, the only one.

          Reading their comments is most hurtful…don’t give them any more space…they do not represent many non-denominationals who spend their time focusing on the Lord and not on such unsubstantiated ‘Chick’ magazine thinking.

          • Instigator

            That is very narrow-minded. And you think your comments cannot be hurtful? Say what? Such a great example of hate speech.

          • GustAdlph

            Thanks. I only read replies to my post.

  • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

    Thou art are Peter Greek (petros) = small stone and upon this Rock Greek (petra) = bed rock , I will build my Church
    Mat 16:18…
    The Petra is what Peter had just confessed “Thou art the Christ The son of the Living God” Vs16

    It is upon that truth that The church is built.. Believers are The Living stones As Peter said in 1 Pet 2:5

    Peter is Flesh and Blood.. not a suitable foundation for God’s Spiritual house.. a spiritual house needs a spiritual foundation…

    Jesus is the spiritual man and cornerstone of His church and all who confess him as peter did are united as “living stones” to the Foundation, which is The Apostles and the Prophets and Christ Himself the cornerstone.. Eph 2:19,20

    Apostolic succession has nothing to do with a person, but it is the ‘Apostolic Faith’ that is in succession and Christ the builder will raise up and appoint Men according to His will as was the case with Apostle Paul 1 Cor 3:10

    Christ is the head of His Church from whom the entire body is supplied and held together Col 2: 19 (It is not the Pope ) nor any man for that matter for all are” flesh and blood”

  • Hondo Stone

    To all Catholics:

    To whom you pray, that is your god.
    If you pray to anyone other than the Most High, you are praying to a false god and a devil.
    None in heaven can hear, nor answer prayer but the Lord.
    If you pray to anyone else, you show yourself to be yet in your sins and subject to eternal damnation.
    Consider this, and then GET OUT OF THAT DAMNABLE CHURCH and get away from ALL its damnable teachings and get into the Bible and pray for wisdom and understanding that you might believe and be saved.

    • dpharisee2010

      You stay in your HATRED and guess who resides in YOU. If GOD is LOVE and if catholics is for GOD, who can be against them? U cooperate with what is good now or you will be under the umbrella of sharia law, atheism, gay-ism, terrorism. Which one?.

      • Julie

        They still won’t ID what church/ecclesial community/ sect they belong to. Why?

        • Instigator

          Probably because many of us have come of HER!

      • Instigator

        Yes, their god, not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    • desiree madden

      I’ll pray for you.Peace

  • timetorun

    when the pope and the vatican PUBLICALLY REPENT of its murders and persecutions of Christian believers down thru the ages (and by the way instigated at the impulse of the founder of the Jesuits—this pope is a jesuit), then I will believe that they mean business about there being one body of Christ and attainable unity. Their doctrines of purgatory, indulgences, praying to the saints, and interposing Mary infront of the Lord Jesus are so spurious that even if they did repent of their murders, i wonder if serious evangelicals could find unity with their doctrines and traditions of men.

    • desiree madden

      Read St. John Paul 2 writings.You’ll get your request
      Peace

    • Julie

      There were two Americans from the mid 1800′s who got hold of some material on the Inquisition and started creating spins saying the Church killed thousands of people..another one said millions.

      Why do people readily believe such things?????

      • Instigator

        And I suppose Ignatius Loyola was a fine Christian man? Do you ever read anything outside of your comfort zone? My family is LDS and they sound just like the Catholics here. They are zealots that cannot conceive of anything that will dispute their reality.

  • desiree madden

    It is a sad day for Christianity to read the majority of these comments.I can see there is a lot more prayer to attend to after reading most of them.INSTEAD OF CRITICIZING WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHY NOT ASK GOD TO SHOW TRUTH TO YOU.PEACE All,goodnight.

  • Jeff Marshall

    The problem is not that true believers “just don’t understand”, but rather that they actually do know God, have been Born Again, & both know & have full faith in the Word of God! The fact that WOF heretics & wolves that fleece the flock like the Copelands are teaming up with the Roman Catholic “church” that has murdered & persecuted more members of Christ’s true Bride than any/all others combined over the last 2000 years doesn’t surprise me. The fact that people like the Robisons & other confessed evangelicals are “uniting” with a RC “church” that denies the Gospel of Salvation by Grace alone through faith alone is starting to get alarming.
    The only way one can defend RCC members, priests & popes as “brethren” is total Biblical ignorance or blatant apostasy. It definitely comes from people not really born again who read their Bible & believe it. Paul spent the book of Galatians telling them that they were accursed & denied the Gospel if they believe the Gospel but added the works of the Law to it. What would he say of the doctrines of the RCC? Good Lord! Some say, “we shouldn’t argue/divide over doctrine” yet the Bible teaches something TOTALLY different! This generation is ripe for further deception/apostasy. Judgement is coming & abortion, pornography, & greed aren’t the only reasons, but the apostasy & unBiblical “unity” with those who deny the Gospel.
    Purgatory, priests, Popes, indulgences, forbidding to marry, infant baptism, confession, working for salvation, having no assurance of salvation, claiming Muslims/communists/aetheists have a way to God denying the Gospel, etc. etc., etc. All “doctrines of demons” embraced by the false religion (ie cult) of Roman Catholicism). Repent & believe the Gospel & live.

    • James Staten

      Jeff Marshall, I have spent the last two days watching six inches of rain fall while at this computer posting many comments. Brother, I said yesterday I was through posting, but after reading several of your statements, I just had to say keep “Fighting the Good Faith”….James

    • Julie

      So sorry Jeff but you are passing severe judgment on people who believe in the Lord as strongly as you do.

      You just never experienced Him in the Church.

      • Instigator

        Then you are under delusion.

  • Jeff Marshall

    A great read on A Biblical look at Roman Catholic Doctrine is “Preparing for Eternity” by Mike Gendron. He is a former Catholic who “does understand what he is speaking about”. Ultimately, when it comes down to what God says in His Word or some “pope” or council, it is the same as the serpent in Eve’s ear in the garden: “Did God really say? You will not surely die…” As Solomon says repeatedly in Ecclesiastes, “there is truly nothing new under the sun”.

  • Jeff Marshall

    Even if the pope & RCC publicly repent of murdering untold millions of believers, if they continue in RCC doctrine/teaching which denies the exclusivity of the Gospel of God’s grace by faith, it would be sin to “unite” with them as they deceive people into a false religion. God forbid! Remember, down through the inquisition, men like William Tyndale, John Bunyan, etc. we’re persecuted & burned at the stake as “heretics” because they wanted people to have their own Bible! God forbid! If the RCC can control who can “read & understand” the scriptures, then they can “be like God” & usurp the authority of God & His Word! God forbid! Do not be deceived by this garbage! Christ is coming back for a pure bride & not a religious bunch of wolves & their sheeplings

    • Julie

      Where is the source…what in the world are you talking about???

      • Instigator

        Read Fox’s Book of Martyrs.

  • Muriel Vargo

    I was raised Catholic. However, I never had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I was not saved by someone telling me or meeting a Born Again Christian in fact I never heard of being born again before it happened to me. Over 30 years ago, out of a fear of dying, I wanted to know where I would go when I died. It came into my mind to get a bible. I had never read the bible. As I read, I realized that I was a sinner and was going to hell. I knew that Jesus (from my Catholic upbringing) had died for the sins of the world and so I wondered if He died for the sins of the world, why then was I going to hell? I was desperate to know the answer to my questions but despite trying, I could not find someone to ask. Then one morning while in deep despair and ready to give up my search, (I was not in the world I was seeking and not in the world I had been in and was miserable and deeply confused), a light came into my room and at first I was very frightened. I thought I was finally going insane (something every one was telling me if I continued reading the bible) but the light came closer and came over me and I heard in my mind a voice say “It is I, I have loved you since the beginning of time and I will love you even until the end of the age, seek after me.” I knew it was God and I felt love and peace wash over me, a feeling like I had never experienced before. I wanted to know this God more than anything else I could have here on earth. The next day I was so excited to learn more of this God and so I knelt down in my kitchen and told Him that I was a sinner going to hell and I needed Him to help me go to heaven because I could not get there on my own. I told Him I knew it had something to do with Jesus dying on the cross but it didn’t seem personal because I was going to hell. I told Him I had nothing to give Him but myself and so I told Him I would give Him myself. So I surrendered myself to Him. The light came again into the room, into my heart and I felt His love and peace flood over me and then I knew that I knew God. I spent 6 months alone with Him teaching me before I met another true Christian. One of the first things He did was call me out of the Catholic Church. I was deeply upset that when I went to the Catholic Church His Spirit inside of me would get upset, especially if I prayed to Mary. I kept asking Him what was wrong, “I’m going to church.” He asked me “where does it say in the bible to worship anyone but the Lord your God.” As He taught me, I became very upset to learn all those years I had been taught nothing but lies. Leaving the Catholic faith caused members of my family to not speak to me for years. To this day some 30 years later sadly, they still mock “Born Agains.” Also accepting Christ cost me all my friends at that time who left me thinking I was a crazy religious nut. But He gave me new friends and a new family. I don’t know what to say about what is happening here with this Pope or the Catholic Church. But I urge the Body of Christ to use spiritual discernment (A gift He gave me) Test everything against the Word of God and discard any false doctrines. I can tell you God does care where we worship and the doctrines we believe we tend to live out. God will hold us accountable for what we did with His word. We are all called to love God first and foremost above any religion, denomination or church. What I learned about the Catholic Church I did not learn from man but the Lord during those first six months alone with Him. I caution the Body of Christ not to be deceived by false doctrines. We are all called to keep daily in His word and repent before Him of all the sins which so easily entangle us. He is returning soon and we are going to go through the tribulation despite those who falsely believe in a Pre-trib rapture. It is a doctrine which only leads one into complacency and ease. He let me know during those first 6 months that the end was coming and I got an impression from Him it would occur during my lifetime. (And I never even knew there was going to be an end of the world) Two years ago He impressed upon me to study His word concerning His second coming. Many other things He taught me but I don’t have enough room here to tell you all He has done and the miracles He has worked in my life. He has taught me through many trials and heartache. Of this I am certain, He is loving, faithful and true and worth our worship. Why give it to another including the Catholic Church or the pope? Such foolishness!!! Worship God and read His word, He is coming soon!!!

    • Ken Faivor

      Very nice testimony. Hondo could learn something here I expect.

      • Hondo Stone

        Very nice testimony BUT…..that part about a light coming in the room is nonsense, a lie and absolutely NOT of God!
        It sounds so exciting and full of wonderment only it is full of something that is not from God!
        So many today are deceived and hang on to that which is of a delusion and therefore destructive.
        Satan comes as an angel of light and is the Great Deceiver!

        Believe what you will….I will believe the Word ALONE!

        • Jesse

          I don’t see anywhere in God’s word where He says He can’t/won’t manifest Himself in any way He chooses. I am aware however that is a wrong practice to base doctrine on personal experiences.

          • Hondo Stone

            When God completed the Bible, He then completed speaking to people.
            These who say they had a dream or a vision or heard from God are delusional or just out right LIARS!
            You may believe whatever your heart tells you but the Bible is the ONLY way that God speaks His revelation and will to man.

          • Jesse

            Stoner, I know you are full of the ‘wisdom of man’, but I will caution you on something. In these last of the final days, God may have dozens of items He wishes to relate to His Church as well as the unsaved. Your firm unscriptural belief that prophecy is closed forever will not prevent Him from doing exactly as he pleases. Sad part is that with your one way thinking you are going to miss it.

          • Hondo Stone

            I am not “stoner”
            I am speaking what God says in His Word but you, as many, many others refuse to hold to His Word alone and desire the exciting “New Revelation” that any so called Christian out there says they received from the Lord!

            God says He is FINISHED with any more prophesy in Revelation 22:18.19 and will hold True to His Word, not as those who believe these false prophets and by doing so call God a liar!

            BALONEY, HOGWASH, LIES! are all these “New things from God!

            I KNOW the Truth, believe the Truth alone in His Word, and will NOT miss the catching up when He comes! as many will thinking they are saved.

            Now go and search the “Christian news and radio stations” here and there and see what “god” has new for you to follow and look for!

          • Jesse

            Yes you are not ‘Stoner’ & I apologize for giving you a nickname that is unacceptable.

            Here is the verses that you have mentioned, and they DO NOT say that God has finished His prophecy forever or that He is FINISHED at anything at all, It is obviously a warning to the many false prophets in the following 1900 years. It also DOES NOT SAY that He won’t clarify His word by message from/through the Holy Spirit as often as He will.

            I am sceptical of some of the “revelations” that supposedly come to some people through dreams and visions and so forth and I usually test them severely. I seldom however speak critically of spiritual messages given in worship services (usually in tongues and then translated after) because it is a scriptural activity according to apostle Paul, also I have heard many of these and they usually do not include any prophetic revelations. There are some (at least one) posters here that claim to have been given “prophetic revelations” in visions for instance that are totally questionable in substance and source, and I have had several (4-6) of my posts censored (deleted) this day for questioning him.
            Here are the verses.

            Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

            Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

          • Hondo Stone

            You don’t see, and WILL NOT see because you have been blinded by things other than the written Word of God!

          • Jesse

            Are you all MOUTH, stoner. If you want to argue my point give me chapter and verse that proves your point, otherwise just shut up.

    • Julie

      That is very nice and you are one of many who could not find faith in the Lord in the Church, but it doesn’t mean you don’t have any faith in Him.

      I don’t think you understand how we relate to the Church or to the holy father…I wrote what grace is in the catechism and there are others, but lengthy to put in the others.

      The problem is that people are judging by outward appearances, and likewise refusing to listen to what we are trying to say.

      I don’t believe in the ‘stuff’ you say I believe in either.
      The Church is most Christocentric. We have the full deposit of faith in Christ.

  • Mary Shinn

    I posted earlier today a message to a Protestant prophet. It is important to read the Catholic and non-Catholic Christian messages from Heaven for there is one end-time. If only everyone believed. 1 Cor 12:28 lists prophecy second. God is going to unite Christianity in the prophesied “awakening” and bring Non-Christians to the Faith, those who choose to convert. The “awakening” is Revelation 6:15-17.

    Message to Mitt Jeffords

    June 29, 2014

    “Who is going to abide in the day of my coming? Who shall stand when I appear?”

    The second sentence is Revelation 6:17!

    And…

    Notice the first sentence, the word “abide.” This is from the original writings, King James’ translators changed “abide” to dwell. In the Gospel, Our Lord tells you how you abide in Him and He in you. Jesus is
    preparing non-Catholic Christians to accept the summit of the Faith, His presence in the Holy Eucharist. See verse 56 in the KJV.

    John 6:57
    He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, ABIDETH in me, and I in him

    Our Lord also says to
    Mitt in this same message:

    “I desire to correct you so that you may see all truth, and I desire to circumcise your ears so that you may hear and perceive My truth. You have not yet seen the truth, but I am opening your ears so that you may hope for my truth.”y

    “All Truth” is found in the Faith, Roman Catholicism. God is going to reveal this to every person on the earth in the “awakening.” Catholic watchers know the “awakening” as the “Warning.”

    Have a blessed prayerful Sunday, the Lord’s Day.

    http://www.openheaven.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=47660&PN=1

    • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

      Mary; What you are referring as the “awakening” In reality will be the “Strong delusion” of 2Thes 2:11 that will ecumenically unite all Faith’s in the final apostasy to worship the Image of the Beast and To Kill all who will not conform to The unified peace..

      • Mary Shinn

        Sorry John B, you need to develop a devotion to prophecy. What happened to a people in the past who did not listen to the prophets?

        God would guide us now. You’re talking about those who will disregard God’s merciful “awakening”, a Second Pentecost you might say but this time for the entire world.

        Why is Our Lord repeatedly saying through Protestant prophets right now: “Eat of Me.” ??? Jesus cannot say Eucharist for your disbelief but He is saying it.

        God would warn of the anti-Christ’s plans, do not take the chip or look at the AC’s image. After the divine “awakening” it will be time to toss electronic means to view the anti-Christ!

        You are confusing satanic NWO plans in union with the evil one’s plans with this great gift coming from God.

        • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

          So, God is going to send an awakening and a strong delusion.. I see the Apostle’s saying about “God sending the Strong delusion”.. But I do not see any Apostolic references to an awakening.. to the contrary Jesus said; “will I find faith upon the earth” indicating the Lack of it..

          • Mary Shinn

            John, Yes! God is sending His “Awakening”, Catholics hear it named the Warning, the “illumination of conscience”, the
            “Mini-judgment.”

            What of the last fifty years? There is little faith on the earth.
            The world legalizes grave MORTAL sin, sodomy and the worst, abortion. Jesus is coming to save souls.

            God will respect our choice and there will be disbelievers.

            Remember, this is not NWO, Satanic, the “delusion” verse you keep sharing. Only God can show you every moment of your life. Prepare for the “awakening” by examine your life, your conscience. Make a truly contrite confession of your mortal sins to God now!

            We will NOT feel the spiritual pain of seeing CONFESSED sins during the NDE like life review of the “awakening.”

          • Instigator

            There has always been a remnant. That is all there ever has been. What you are referring to indeed is strong delusion. The Vatican will play key role but it will be in opposition of the Savior.

          • Julie

            You ARE the Remnant!

          • Instigator

            Being a true Catholic showing your colors.

        • Instigator

          You belittle God. God is quite capable of fulfilling His will. He does not need man to save those who are His. Awakening? That is unscriptural. The Eucharist is an abomination in the eyes of God. Just as continually depicting Christ dead nailed to a cross is.

      • Jesse

        You may be right John, she has a very dangerous teaching there.

        “God is going to unite Christianity in the prophesied “awakening”

        • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

          Thank you, biblically I see division…. On the one hand (a remnant having come out of Babylon) and on the other those given over to the strong delusion in false unity..

          What Mary is saying has no scriptural value.. The fact that protestant prophets are supposedly saying “eat me” is just another way of saying Come back to ‘MotherRome’

          Blessings to you in Jesus..

          • Julie

            Why don’t you attack the Orthodox as well? They believe in Mary have icons, have the liturgy, have all the books of Sacred Scripture that Luther took out 1500 years later that led to this mess.

            Why do you just single Catholics? What about the Maronites, the Byzantine Catholics, the Greek and Russian Orthodox, the Armenians Orthodox, the Syrian Orthodox, …there are 22 rites, meaning cultures of churches that are united to Rome…Ethiopian Roman Catholics and so on.

          • Instigator

            I do not single out Catholics. I take issue with all those who call themselves “Christian” but then do not make it the central part of their life and pursue a relationship with the Lord. And I mean the walking with the Lord not seeking a church or denomination. THEY ARE ALL WRONG.

          • Julie

            They are ALL WRONG. And you are ALL RIGHT….RIGHT ON!.

          • Instigator

            You are not with it. ALL ORGANIZED RELIGIONS ARE WRONG. Was all Israel saved? Hardly. So show me a religion that has a congregation comprised of 100% saved in Christ. It does not exist. Wake up.

          • http://johnbouchet.blogspot.com.au/ John B

            Mary It is Because The coming religious unification will be ‘papal’ by design..That is already clearly seen to be in the making is it not?…
            If you acquaint yourself with Scriptural prophecy It cannot be any other but Rome that will be the instigator of the Great final Apostasy..

          • Julie

            Eat me…sounds icky.

          • Jesse

            Thank you John, I’ve notice a few posters here actually seem to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, as least understanding seems little greater than many of the posts I have read lately. Of course the Catholics posting here are very dedicated and it’s too bad real Christianity doesn’t them as members.

    • Instigator

      There will be no end time revival. Jesus will return as a thief and as in the days of Noah.

      • Julie

        True and hope He has you as you are said you are saved and going up there. Wish you well.

        • Instigator

          Jesus said that Heaven is within you. A saved creature in Christ is the temple of God. I am not going it is coming here when He returns with New Jerusalem.

  • Julie

    Regarding the Catholic position on grace, it can be found in many places as here in the Catholic Catechism 654: The Paschal mystery has two aspects by his death, Christ liberates us from sin; by his Resurrection, he opens for us the way to a new life. This new life is above all justification that reinstates us in God’s grace, ‘so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we might too walk in the newness of life….’ Rom 6:4. It (grace) brings about filial adoption so that men become Christ’s brethren, as Jesus himself called his disciples after his Resurrection.: “Go and tell my brethren.” We are brethren not by nature, but by the gift of grace, because that adoptive filiation gains us a real share in the life of the only Son, which was fully revealed in his Resurrection.

    About the final judgment, the Lord will judge us in how we loved, how we cared for the poor, the sick, the stranger, those in prison, the hungry. In no way does the Gospel of the Lord say that Catholics will be damned.

    We are saved by grace of the Lord. That is Catholic faith.

    I do not want to spend my time being abused and mistreated and damned because of other people’s willful distortions of my faith or the full Scripture that we follow formed in union with the Holy Spirit and those manipulated by men in later times who follow their own desires in the name of God and cause so many divisions among Christians.

    It is very shameful to see the attitudes and responses on this thread. People who think they are better are not following the fullness of the Gospel.

    • Julie

      So far, no other anti-catholic has read the catechism here, one of many references to God’s grace.

    • Instigator

      Why such faith in an institution rather than in God alone?

      • Julie

        Well, just look at what happened on this thread…some heads not working with a full deck.

        • Instigator

          God said that He would keep a remnant. The rest leavened.

  • Jeff Marshall

    Oh, my dear brother Muriel Vargo, what a testimony my dear brother! Much like mine in some ways, only I was raised an “evangelical” in word/name/theory only. I gave mental ascent to Christ, but not till I was at the end of myself & humbled did I seek God for myself (also by myself alone with His Word for many months). I surrendered my whole life/heart to God, repented of my sin, believed the Gospel & was truly Born Again also! I have many ex-catholic & ex-Protestant religious in name only friends who have similar testimony. Praise God!
    Remember, Nicodemus knew the Bible (what their was of it at the time, the Torah & Prophets), tithed of all he had, lived an outwardly clean life, attended synagogue every time the door opened, etc. & even honored Jesus by saying “we know you were sent by God”, but Jesus didn’t skirt the real issue and said in John 3, “You MUST be Born Again. Unless you are Born Again, you’ll never see the kingdom of God….you must be born of water and the Spirit..” True Conversion unto salvation is a supernatural work of God! Not just a “decision”, & not just following the tenants of a specific religious denomination and trying to be a good person. Such self-righteous acts God calls (in Isaiah) “as filthy rags in my sight” (used menstral clothes), & will damn you to an eternal hell separated from God. You must trust in Christ alone, God’s Grace alone, through Faith alone, or you are anathema (eternally condemned outside the Biblical faith God requires).

  • Jeff Marshall

    Julie, I don’t “think I’m better”. I, like the apostle Paul, know that no good thing dwells in me, that is in my flesh & that apart from Christ I really am among the chiefest of sinners. Difference is, Catholics think they can achieve right standing with God with their good works. Impossible! Julie, do you know for sure you are going to heaven? If so, or if not, On what basis?

    • Mary Shinn

      Jeff, hi,

      Faith alone is not true. Jesus meant false works not all works. The Old and the New Testament are full of verses to say we are saved by Faith and works with the help of God’s grace.

      Jesus’ words, you can’t just cry out Lord, Lord (Faith), you must do (works) the will of My Father.

      Matthew 7:21
      Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

      • desiree madden

        Good works are the natural outcome a heart surrendered to GOD,see James. Peace

    • Julie

      You are on very shakey ground.

      While the posts here attack the universal Christian faith, which is Catholic AND Orthodox, you people do not reveal your own sects.

      What you call works, we call living out the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

      You judge and condemn others…that is in your heart.

      Jesus said on judgement day, He will judge those according to how they loved others. How they cared for others, how they performed the spiritual and corporal works of mercy.

      God does not need us. But how we affirm our faith in Him is in how we treat our neighbor as ourself.

      God dictated to Moses how He wanted to be worshipped, not how man thinks he wants to worship and believe.

      Christ fulfilled worship at the Last Supper when He told the Apostles to ‘Do this…in memory of Me.’ He was most literal in his words. Before the Last Supper he told his many followers that they would come to eat of His flesh and blood to gain heaven, the fulfillment of the Fruit of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden.

      Most of Christ’s followers left Him because to them He was leading them into a form of cannibalism.

      When you take the Word of God and misinterpret it you are making the Bible the word of death, and making it an idol as an end to itself and you are using Scripture to condemn others.

      • PGMGN

        Well said, Julie.

      • Instigator

        I condemn no one. I judge no one saved or lost, just inspect the fruit of others. We are to prove all things. But that means what is in Scripture with what is being presented not the teachings of some religion.

        • Julie

          You sure are condemning to alot of other people.

          • Instigator

            Not condemning just sharing.

    • desiree madden

      Okay.#1 Catholics DO NOT THINK OR BELIEVE right standing is possible without, wait for it…. a decision for CHRIST #2 Good works are the natural outcome of a life surrendered to GOD.Please go read the book of James.# 3 GOD sends no one to Hell,they choose by their decision to believe in the ONLY SON OF GOD or not! # 4 PEACE BE WITH YOU!

      • Instigator

        Just because a person states that they believe in the only son of god does not bring salvation. What you stated is completely unscriptural.

        • Julie

          Glad you are saved.

        • Gallibus

          True! By their fruits you will know them.

          • Instigator

            What? Off topic again. How is salvation obtained? By choosing Him? Good works then result from choosing Him? Those who do not choose Him, do not pass go, do not collect $200, but go directly to Hell? Really? That is in the Catholic Bible? Wow. That is no where to be found in my King James Bible.

    • Instigator

      Amen.

    • Julie

      Well you and your friends have already damned me and OK’d yourself.

  • Jeff Marshall

    Mary, the context/meaning of Matthew 7 is actually, as it says in Isaiah, “those who honor God with their lips but their hearts are far from Him”. That’s claiming to call God “Lord” (master), but not truly being known by Him (born again), so then trying to be using works as justification (which God rejects because works cannot save. This verse in context isn’t showing Biblical faith, but the opposite; lip service and self-righteous works that God rejects. It actually makes my point (God/scriptures point), not yours/Catholicism’s.
    Faith is apart from works of the Law by Grace, and true faith results in true good works by God’s Spirit, not your “goodness”. thats the heart of the Gospel Mary. Theres nothing good in the heart of man, thats why we must be Born Again from above of God’s Spirit which only happens by faith alone. Look at all these verses, most of which are in Romans, the book explaining the theology of true salvation to those who had believed in Rome:
    Rom. 3:28-30, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.”
    Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”
    Rom. 5:1, “therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;”
    Rom. 9:30, “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;”
    Rom. 10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
    Rom. 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”
    Gal. 2:16, “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”
    Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
    Gal. 3:5-6, “Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
    Gal. 3:24, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.”
    Eph. 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast.”
    Phil. 3:9, “and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”
    Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly; and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith–not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone.

    • Julie

      You are very judgmental and very wrong. There is no such thing as the gospel of mary.

      Have you been to Mass?

      The focus of Catholic/Orthodox belief, is Christ. Get yourself a catechism and of the over 2,000 doctrines of faith, 27 are related to Mary, all in the context of her relationship to Christ and her saying yes to His will to be the Mother of the Savior.

      Again, it is so sad to see people here twist so many of our beliefs and practices.

      Your understanding of Catholicism is pagan.

      • Jeff Marshall

        Mary, its in one of the recent papal declarations (John Paul 2 I believe) that “Mary is CoMediatrix with Christ”. That’s a fact. That’s also blasphemy. The Word of God tells us that “there is one mediator between God & man, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5), & that is is an abomination to pray to the dead & Mary was just a woman. Chosen by God for a specific purpose yes, but still just a woman. Just as Esther, Ruth, Rebekkah, Hannah, Deborah, etc. & you don’t pray to them. Yes, I have been to mass & I do understand Catholic teaching. Just as this former catholic explains:

        No “Patron Saints”. No “Mediatrix”. No “Corredemptrix”. No “Mother of God”. No “Perpetual Virgin”.

        Before I got saved I was a catholic. When I got married, the catholic priest asked us (my wife to be and me) to go to an idol(Exo 20:4) and pray for help with our life together as husband and wife. My future wife was to pray to Mary in front of a statue of her while I was to do likewise in front of a statue of Joseph.

        If you’re still a catholic you might say, “We pray with saints, not to them.” When asking the dead to pray with you, you are trying to converse with the dead. “[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, [11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [12] For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.” (Deut 18)

        • Robert Bbb

          Jeff your understanding is not complete. Jesus is the mediator between man and the Father. And through Jesus we can pray for each other, thats a form of mediation. So we can pray for each other and take it to Jesus, Jesus then takes it to the Father.
          Mary is mother of God, mother of Jesus. That is a fact not opinion.

          • Instigator

            God has no mother. He is alpha and omega.

          • Gallibus

            When you give birth to the Son of God incarnate, what else could you call Him except your son, and visa versa He would call you mother. It is a matter of common usage of language and understanding of the words Mother and son.

          • Instigator

            When speaking of Christ’s humanity, fine. When speaking of the risen Savior, calling Mary His mother, such a connotation is completely inaccurate. Mary has no special place in Heaven than any other saved woman.

          • Gallibus

            Blessed Mother Mary did not give Christ either His Divinity or His Soul – just the same as any other mother does not give the child a soul – God does. That is why the parents are sometimes called ‘co-creators’ with God. The parents ‘give’ the body and God gives the soul which is eternal.
            Now, if you are a Christian and accept Jesus’ teachings as handed down through His true Church over and above your own opinions, you will believe that Mary was given by Christ to be our Mother and Mother of His Church.
            You will also believe that Jesus was sinless, therefore He kept the Commandments of God – the fourth is : ‘Honour your father and your mother’. If Jesus honours His Mother, why do you have a problem doing that?
            Do you want to please Jesus or yourself? And I can tell you that dishonouring His Mother is very offensive to the Lord (just as a similar disrespect for a person’s mother is so highly offensive that you are at best likely to be banished from that person’s presence and friendship) and in any case goes against the second Commandment. If you love God you will love the ones that He loves for His sake, if for no other reason. Satan hates Mary because God has ordained that she is the vehicle through He will crush satan. So, if you side with satan then you know which side you are really on and so do we.

          • Instigator

            Hahahaha! Right.

        • Mary Shinn

          Ah, hi Jeff, you got the title given Mary wrong. Research before speaking. If you knew the Faith you would never have left. All your protests have been addressed a thousand times.

          Protestantism is much easier. You get to decide the meaning of Christ’s words and His teachings and you can pick an choose what you wish to believe of His Teachings.

          Our Lord said four times not just once, see John 6, to have life in you and to gain eternal life you must eat My body and drink My blood! History shows for 2000 years this is the supernatural Eucharist which Protestants reject since the reformers left the Faith in 1517. They must come home and many will at the “awakening” when God shows them.

          On Mary, all the Marian Dogmas come from the Blessed Trinity not the Church. The Gospel is about Jesus, revelation about who Mary is would come later. Though an example of
          Mary is the Mother of God comes from Elizabeth inspired by God the Holy Spirit.

          Luke 1:43
          And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me

          • Instigator

            You are very cynical.

        • Gallibus

          Re: ‘No “Patron Saints”. No “Mediatrix”. No “Corredemptrix”. No “Mother of God”. No “Perpetual Virgin”‘.

          Reply: You are a co-redeemer when you pray and sacrifice for others in and with Christ; You are a mediator to Christ when you pray for others to Him with or without asking Mary or those victorious souls, the saints, to join you in interceding. And the prefix co- does not imply equality of mission simply association. Who stood at the foot of the Cross with Jesus and suffered and partook of His whole life and mission on earth? Was it not Mary?

    • Mary Shinn

      Jeff. “Faith alone” came from Martin Luther, it is not of God. Protestants cling to this heresy, I do not know I why. It is easier. The verses you shared
      are about the Pharisees unjust laws and by no means do we save ourselves, God saves us. Justification comes by God’s help, His grace, our faith in His revelation and our lives lived which is “works” we freely choose to do. The lame excuse to cover Luther’s lie that Faith makes you do a “work.” No way,
      Our free Will choice is involved every time. God desires our love to be true.

      Why is there a judgment of your “works” by God at your particular judgment and at the Final Judgment?

      Matthew 16:27
      For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.

      Address James 2:24
      Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

      • Instigator

        If you read Paul that is complete opposition with what you are presenting there. Freewill? You do not have freewill when it comes to choosing God. God’s chooses. A sinner is incapable of choosing the True and Living God without intervention of the Holy Spirit.

        • Julie

          Who are you talking to??

          • Instigator

            Wasn’t you.

    • Julie

      I am glad you are entitled to be part of the enlightened.

      God bless you for your magnificence.

  • Julie

    Can anyone here who is openly anti Catholic reveal their own denominations? We are honest in revealing who we are. But I see no one revealing their own ecclesial communities.

    Pilate asked Christ who He was and the Lord answered, ‘I am Truth’.

    Can you follow the Lord as you claim you are with Him and we are not and reveal yours???

    • abbygirl08

      Julie,
      The body of Christ generally doesn’t identify with any particular denomination, but rather with the Lord and His Word and the common experience of being born again. Many Protestant denominations are filled with as much error as the Catholic church is. That is why some of us rarely even attend church. It is hard to find a church that hasn’t glombed on to some false teaching or even made merchandize of the attendees in order to perpetuate their lifestyles.

      Jesus said “You must be born again!” This experience is what unites us. The GIFT of righteosness is open to whosoever will. It is offered without cost on our part, but with GREAT cost on His part.

      “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.”
      (Revelation 3:20)

      I personally feel badly for getting involved in this discussion other than to present scripture. I’m sure that many of my comments were not presented in love, and for that I apologize. Please forgive.

      May you grow in the grace and knowledge of The Lord Jesus Christ.

      • Julie

        Thanks for your kind remarks.

        As Jeff was sharing his experience at his wedding, that priest’s actions were reflective of his own. So many Catholics do not reflect on Scripture and the Holy Family’s example of quiet submission to the will of God in their daily duty. That is what the priest was trying to do…time to pray and reflect on the Word of God and the early life of Christ. The Family of Nazareth is the model for beginning families.

        He like many others, did not experience the Lord in the Church. My parents were devout and lived a very simple life and i used to walk home and visit Our Lord in the tabernacle. My parents called me every weekend during the late 60′s and early 70′s when so many lost their faith in the free sex revolution.

        So if a person cannot ‘see’ the Lord but surroundings…including Mary as she is a creature, then everything will be confusing and people fall away. Likewise in times past, people really put good priests on pedastals and when their humanity and their own limitations were revealed….and I am not talking about abuse here, their faith can be challenged.

        We are to keep our eyes on the Lord constantly. It is a matter of recognizing Him at Mass and in the tabernacle, knowing our faith through the catechism, over 2800 points of faith and 20 to 40 in regards to Mary.

        We don’t use the term’ being saved as our life is a life long conversion and when could backslide. So we follow the Lord and His exhortation to die to ourselves, pick up our cross, and follow HIm, and those who endure to the end will be saved.

        So we are not assured of our salvation in the Lord until we are in His arms in heaven.

        And Scripture says we approach the Lord with fear and trembling and not look on our way of understanding. We must die totally to self….and that takes a long time for the most of us.

        God bless you and have a good day. Note I prayed others in here yesterday and thought about their works last night and this morning when rising and prayed again.

        They continue to not reveal themselves and if they are in the Truth of the Lord, then why not be transparent with their beliefs?

        Again, God bless.

        • abbygirl08

          Revelation 21:6
          Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.”

          • Julie

            We enter into the life of Christ, we likewise live in Him, the eternal being, where there is no death. When people die in the Lord, they are merely passing from this life into eternal life.

            Only what can separate us from Him is when we fall back into grave sin that violate the commandments and charity.

    • GEORGE DAVIS

      I AM OF THE WORD TRUTH AND LIGHT ,THE BODY OF CHRIST,AND THE CHURCH OF PHILIDELPHIA ,ISRAEL .27 37 73 5778

      • Julie

        What is that? Been around for 100 years or so and then everybody in between is lost until yours came along? What happened to the Holy Spirit and Christ’s words He would remain with us.

        • GEORGE DAVIS

          i am with you and have given you the TRUTH WORD AND LIGHT

          • Julie

            Problem is you are looking at Scripture without anything else…no guidance of interpretation.

            No offense, but the approach and perspective people have here using text alone that was written 2000 years ago, is akin, albeit, no violence beyond condemning people to hell, but like the Muslims.

            People here are looking at the surface of language but not going into depth that transcends time, race, culture, language, and geopolitical conditions.

            You look at text alone, you are divorcing human beings from the Word of God.

            Likewise, all denominations, including the Church has sinned. The universal Church, and here I am including the Orthodox that were united with the Latin Church which was one church until the Russians were converted, and then linguistic mistranslations occured that led to the Schism, there is fault on all sides. The Latin Church admits its sins but I don’t see it in any other.

            The big block opposing reunification between Latin and Eastern is the nationalist faction within Russian Orthdoxy that worked hand in hand with the communists.

            The problem with Restorationists is that you cannot see any incarnation of the Word into cultures around the world or recognize the unifying and guiding forces of Church authorities and structure.

            Likewise Restorationists have very difficult time interpreting Scripture in the light of the times we live in.

            Yes, we can all see the signs. And I believe it is true that we are coming to a world wide chastisement of fire, that there will be a remnant and then there will be one shepherd again with one flock. People will be together in worship and community.

          • Instigator

            No guidance? You mean from the Catholic side of things? You are very closed-minded and opinionated against anything that goes against your beliefs and have little to substantiate them other than the words of other people handed down like the traditions of men that they are. Takes little faith to cling to such things.

          • Gallibus

            If you have so little respect for the opinions of man, why do you have so much for your own?

          • Instigator

            Sick of the religious rants and division, hence the moniker.

          • GEORGE DAVIS

            the word is the truth of light. and i am with you in truth word and light.mark 13 ;37 and i tell YOU WATCH, come see the youtube channel i have who i am DARASH, shalom

          • Instigator

            You are missing the simplicity in Christ.

        • Instigator

          Sounds like Babylon is a refuge for you.

    • Mary Shinn

      Julie, truly, Jesus is the way, the Truth ad the life. He wants you to accept all His Truth.

      Every thing Jesus revealed less the Old Testament prophecies about Him have been given to the world through Roman Catholicism.

      And important, you already accept the New Testament Canon decided by the Church.

      99.8% of the miraculous and that includes the science tested miracles are
      Roman Catholic (the Shroud of Turin, Tilma of Guadalupe, Padre Pio bore the wounds of Christ for 50 years).

      The Remnant is Roman Catholic, the Blessed Trinity is going to ask you personally “soon” to come to the Faith. Accept Our Lord’s presence in the
      Eucharist, for the Eucharist the tops! Then all the rest will make sense to you.

      • Instigator

        That is not a remnant. A remnant is akin to a tithe. Roman Catholicism is not even Christian. Check out its true origins.

    • Instigator

      I am non-denominational. Catholic and Protestantism are the of the same vein. They come out the old Roman empire. They are not God’s church – they were created by man. The seven churches mentioned in Revelation were Catholic, they were not Jewish, and the were not Protestant. The were followers of Christ. It is that simple. Those who fall for mainstream “Christianity” are ignorant of true history. Christ is the Savior. The Holy Spirit is the means by which one is called out of the world and its false religions. Why people insist on looking for a building and a hierarchy of men to lead them rather than following Christ is a way of life that is best illustrated by the Israelites wandering in the wilderness.

      Religion is a conundrum for the masses that refuse to take responsibility for their own state before God. Christians today are for the most part the Israelites worshipping the golden calf; they worship the Thing called Church more than they do the Creator. Nowhere in Scripture does it say anything about Peter being the fist pope, a building being required to worship the Creator, and nowhere does it say that God’s people are to put themselves into the care of others to have a relationship with Him.

      • Mary Shinn

        Instigator,

        God is going to bring us together, watch, trust in the prophetic.

        Remember too, most important, the Blessed Trinity’s plan, the Eucharist. What did they do the Passover Lamb after it was sacrificed? They consumed it! See, far, far greater in the New Covenant. You consume God Himself in Holy Eucharist!! Jesus’ presence in the consecrated host is supernatural, God’s doing. Seeee….

        The “abomination of desolation” takes place when the anti-Christ attempts to take away the Eucharist confected every hour all around the world in the “continual sacrifice”, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

        It is prophesied in Daniel. There is no “continual sacrifice” found in
        Protestantism or Judaism.

        • Instigator

          There is one God, not three. Three offices, one God. The Eucharist is not biblical. The Eucharist is not Christ. There is far too many Babylonian traditions embedded within the Romish Church to even be considered Christian. As for the abomination of desolation I do not even consider that close to what the Word says. And the “continual sacrifice” is not that either. We could not be further apart in our beliefs.

          • Julie

            You are spreading falsehoods so nobody is listening or reading your posts..the leading statements end to no where.

            I am sorry to talk like that but you are really over the top.

          • Instigator

            And you are under strong delusion. As for being openly insulting, whatever.

          • Gallibus

            Jesus explained the Trinity to Vassula Ryden in the following way: Consider a flame – you can take out of it another flame and another – then put them back together and can you tell the one flame from the other? The Trinity is like that: One God, three persons all united and one, not three Gods. For the human mind it is a mystery that we will only understand in eternity.
            Personally I think of God as power – rather like electricity – when you connect the hair-drier to one plug or the other on the same circuit you get the same power. God is the Power that drives all the created things and all the eternal things.Without Him, we are nothing – we could not even lift a finger.
            Your errors of interpretation are due, apart from the limitations of your own mind, also to the limitations of language to fully communicate ideas; that is why a picture is worth a thousand words. That is why the Lord often communicates to His messengers in visions or as ‘illuminations’ of the mind that are without words. If you have trouble understanding text, it is best to consult the writer as to what was meant or at least their trusted confidants. That is the role of Jesus’ Church to hold to the truths of His teachings without them being massacred by the misunderstandings of all and sundry.

      • Julie

        Sorry but you have no documentation to support your ideas.

        You are likewise very scared to identify the sect you belong to as well.

        • Instigator

          Scared? Oh, bollocks! I belong to no sect. Bible study in the homes with other fellow believers. But denomination? None. Church is where two or more are gathered together in His name.
          If you see no truth in my words then we are finished. To go further is futile. I will stop conversing with you. God bless.

      • Gallibus

        You are not following Christ – you are following yourself. But you are a mere man – a speck of dust. Humble yourself and follow Christ before you reap the consequences of your own arrogance.

        • Instigator

          Like you would know Mr. Arrogant the Catholic guru.

    • Jesse

      Why do you keep asking that, Julie? Do you wish to have some ammunition to use to ridicule some of the believers posting here? I have advised you that I am Full Gospel so there is not much fun you can have with that. Below *Instigator* tells you he doesn’t know Catholic from Protestant so you can address his blatant ignorance.(funny, most who claim nondenominational are those too lazy to take a bath on Sunday morning.) Then there is his weird worshiping idols belief, and he thinks the synagogues mentioned in the NT weren’t church buildings.

  • Mary Shinn

    Folks, how is the world assured, the teachings of the Faith and on morals can NEVER be wrong?

    Before Our Lord names Peter leader of His Church (singular) on earth (Matt 6:18), Jesus told Peter, “only the Father has revealed this to you.” (Matt 6:17). See, God guides His chosen leader and to this day.

    You understand we are all sinners, the Pope too but on matters of Faith and Morals he cannot error. The teachings of Roman Catholicism are the teachings of Christ. God is going to show everyone in the world dramatically at the “awakening” (Rev 6:15-17, 1 Cor 3:13).

    This is why the Church stands alone to declare as example, the grave sin contraception! Look at the fruit of some Christians accepting the sin of contraception. The fruit of contraception is legalized abortion! And hardly any next generation.

    God decides life not us. Women are not fertile 100% of the time, God made sex for marriage and procreation, both.

  • Mary Shinn

    Oh my, I left off the number 1. See Matthew 16:17-18. Roman Catholicism can never error on Faith and Morals, she is guided by God. Jesus explained.

    See the difference, we are all sinners, THIS is why Jesus established the one Faith, the one Church. All the grace given through the Sacramental system Our Lord set up.

    Say “yes” when God shows you. The messages from Heaven say the “awakening” is not far off.

    • Julie

      I think Mary that your comments be directed to lurkers. In the meantime, consider Fukushima…the plant is sinking and when it goes it will light the sky, Japan could be wiped out, and serious damage to the Pacific Ocean and who knows what else…I remember reading Akita…..

      Don’t expect these people bother to even listen but only to insult.

      • Mary Shinn

        Thanks Julie. I think you meant Hiroshima not “Akita.” Almost a thousand comments, see why it has to be God showing the world the Faith which includes divided Christianity? The mercy of God, each person personally shown via a NDE like life review. “Soon” says Heaven. Some think 2017 is the year.

        Documented, science tested, a group of priests who prayed daily Mary’s prayer, the rosary. These priests survived, no radiation at ground zero Hiroshima!

        God gets the world’s attention to His Truth in a dramatic way with the miraculous.

        Love you Sister!

        • Instigator

          Christianity is not divided and never will be divided. There are those who are called out and are the Lord’s elect. Then there are those claim to be and falsely profess such.

          • Julie

            Glad you are going to heaven and we are going to hell.

          • desiree madden

            You know what Julie,just pray for these brothers and sisters who, in their mind, have it all figured out.People choose life or death.Heaven or hell by their actions we know this as the catechism teaches.I’m finished responding to the ignorant.About Fukushima? That whole disaster seemed to me a lot bigger a problem than any of our national governments are reporting.I keep it on a back burner of my prayer life.Also,like you, several years ago I had the experience of waking at 3am.Same feelings,not all just sadness, but deep intercession.I ask you to pray for me now I’m in a period of dryness and having difficulty praying at all.Peace to you

          • Julie

            i could see their problems…I think alot of it is due to unchecked personality issues and voids, people that need to be justified that they are right. Most people are not attracted to such sects unless they have some kind of deep inner void.

            You can sit here and type out all sorts of facts but they cannot understand or have the will to be open to the truth.

            I think alot of us are having trouble praying and I am working so much during the week I am not waking up every 3 am to pray for the world. I have a deep sadness…like all that we have known will be gone…ordinary daily things and way of life.

            That calls for us to be in the posture of receiving Him..we know not the hour.

            Yes, I will pray for you, Desiree.

          • Instigator

            You are putting words in my mouth. Only God knows the true state of a person. All I stated was that there is no division in the sense that many are contending here. The division between sects is manmade religions. Whether it is the RCC, Calvinism, etc. They are all of man. Many are called few are chosen is what God stated. As for hell, well, that is an entirely different and deep subject. But for something to consider, what was Moses’ and Abraham’s perspective on Hell? How about Adam and Eve? Where did God warn them and did God warn Cain of eternal damnation?

          • Gallibus

            God told them not to eat of the fruit of the tree of Life or they would surely die. Read Genesis. Satan told them they would not die. Now Adam and Eve lived for hundreds of years after that, so what could God have meant? Did God lie or did satan lie? Since God is an eternal Spirit, He sees things from that perspective and to live, from God’s perspective, is to live in His Light and companionship eternally. When you are cut off from God you suffer an eternal break from Him which is spiritual death. So, yes, they did die; they were damned and we, as their offspring, would all be too if Jesus had not come to save us from that fate and reopen the door to eternal life with Him.

          • Instigator

            You did know answer what I posed. Inferring from your response Adam and Eve are to suffer an eternal break along with all those that died in the flood. You do not even understand the origins of Roman Catholicism.

          • Gallibus

            Clearly you are in ignorance of the origins of Catholicism and you linger in misinterpretation of the Scriptures and God’s unfolding Plan of redemption from Genesis through Revelaton – you can cling to your mistaken beliefs or do some genuine research. God bless you.

          • Instigator

            Christ’s work was completed at the cross. Research? You have no idea. One issue taken with Catholics is that they get their material from other Catholics. The first pope was Simon Magus. A statue of Magus was erected on the Tiber. Peter was never a pope. Catholics will have to answer to God on that. They choose to believe it on faith not research. Peter never stepped one foot in Rome. Disagree? Then prove it, not to me, to yourself. Genuine research? Isn’t that what everyone on here says to others in disagreement?

          • Gallibus

            Yes, dig deeper! I never even heard of this Magus fellow. I will look it up but he does not seem to have made much of an impact.

          • Gallibus

            Can you prove that Peter never set one foot in Rome? How come he was beheaded there? Did he fly in?

          • Instigator

            You cannot prove a negative. Can you prove Peter did? Can you show the historical evidence that Peter was beheaded there?

            In mid-second century pope Anicetus (156-166) said that Peter was beheaded by Nero in Rome. The reason for this claim was that he had became locked in a conflict with Polycarp of Smyrna. Polycarp had tried to win the argument by insisting that he spoke with the authority of the apostle John. In response, Anicetus told of Peter’s beheading and said that he spoke with the authority of Peter. Then in the third century, the Church Father Origen changed the story somewhat, saying that Peter, condemned to crucifixion, felt himself unworthy to be crucified the same way as his Lord, and so chose crucifixion upside down.

            Francis A. Sullivan SJ (From Apostles to Bishops) says that there is a general agreement among scholars that the church of Rome was led by a council of presbyters until well into the second century, with no evidence of a ruling bishop. It seems inconceivable that Peter could have established a precedent of being the leader of the Roman church and even of appointing his successor as bishops, only for the church to abandon the precedent and ignore it for almost a century before joining other churches in having a monepiscopal bishop. Reason alone says that Saint Peter never lived in Rome. Peter was in Palestine, Syria and Egypt, therefore he was NOT in Rome.
            Paul was in Rome. A close study of the Epistle to Romans will completely refute the hypothesis that the Church of the imperial capital was linked to the Apostle Peter.
            The Apostle Paul’s admission that he was willing to “evangelize, where Christ had not been named” (Rom.15:20) is a powerful testimony that before him, no other apostle had ever preached in Rome.”
            If a person is going to state that Peter was ever in Rome or even remotely involved in the Roman Catholic Church they need to show, outside of the RCC, sources to back them up. One does not need to prove that Peter was never there because how can irrefutable proof prove a negative? Impossible. So let’s see the evidence to support these claims about Peter. And the rudeness that continues on this website with those suffering with a superiority complex and flippant remarks shows the shallowness of their faith and their relationship with God.

          • Gallibus

            You just quoted the evidence that Peter was beheaded in Rome. What is your problem? You are really on a mission to deny everything Catholic. Alas for your fruitless efforts.

          • Instigator

            You are being an imbecile. Someday learn to read and think critically. Not wasting my time with you. Catholics on here insist on being divisive and you are especially are arrogant. You do not even understand the history of your own RCC no wonder you are so confused and do not understand my response. Get on with your bad self as I am tired of mental midgets.

          • Gallibus

            I understand your feelings entirely! God bless

          • Instigator

            Another product of the school system. Shouldn’t you learn to read? How about learning critical thinking? You do not even understand the history of the RCC. If you did, then you would have not responded with that. Deny everything Catholic? You mean that the RCC is an abomination in the eyes of God? I do not deny that. As for members of the RCC their state before God is in His capable hands. But the RCC is an affront to the Kingdom of God and is not, never was, and never will be the Christ’s church. Fruitless? To have an intelligent conversation with most Catholics, yet that is often fruitless. Because their are biased, mind-controlled and hateful. Just like the Jesuit order and the Vatican, they seek world domination at any cost and you sir are an idiot. So go away. Stop bugging me with your senseless rhetoric and stupid comments. But you cannot can you? Why? Because most Catholics on here think themselves superior to all others.

          • Gallibus

            As is evident from my writings, I can not only read but also write, understand and comprehend. You have bought a load of baloney and it is sticking to you like sh.. to a blanket. But perhaps in time the penny will drop for you. God bless.

          • Gallibus

            Your level of deception is both horrifying and pitiful. May the Lord have mercy on you.

        • Julie

          I know about Hiroshima…no I meant Akita…

          I also have been reading about the background of why they bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Turns out Gen Eisenhower and most military opposed the nuking of Japan as they were already preparing to surrender to defeat. But Russia also had declared war on Japan. Truman, Oppenheimer the scientist and a military officer were the ones pressing to use the bomb so that Russia could not get any credit for ending the war, Oppenheimer wanting to see what the bomb could do to human beings.

          They had specific sites with others if the first ones didn’t work out. That day it was Hiroshima and the people afterwards then understood why the Bombers didn’t hit them while always flying over the city. When the city was bombed there was no American guilt. But when it came to Nagasaki, it was not a military target, And that morning there was a break in the sky right about when the bomber was going to leave, and so it was dropped on the city and it fell on St. Mary’s Church while people were standing in line for confession. There was alot of guilt about what our country did to Nagasaki. And those who really pushed the bomb, when it wasn’t necessary and refused to drop it outside civilian populations, in my mind now, I consider them war criminals. Now we have that mess in Fukushima and when the floor finally falls, they said flames would go up to ignite the sky and cause severe damage to the rest of the world affected by it.

          Yesterday my diocese consecrated our diocese that is so unchurched and has alot of cults to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

          My former Sepulcian parish vicar told me years ago that it would be probably a 100 years before Fatima’s message would be actualized.

          I wake up at 3 am to pray for the world and I am getting alot of feelings in side like I want to sob about life. It is so sad to see how people are today. So many are lost and we don’t know what day the Lord will come either for ourselves individually or as a member of humanity.

          God bless you, Sister!

          • Mary Shinn

            Julie,

            Thank you for explaining and I am with you, the sadness of what is coming makes one cry. We pray, pray, pray. Heavenly act of the consecration of your parish. Way to go.

            Read the messages at locutions.org and Light of Mary, a visionary from Latin America. Both groups of messages speak of the horrible nuclear. Jesus Mercy!

            God’s divine Warning was prophesied over fifty years ago to happen when Communism comes again and the world
            Is at its worst. Is the “worst” nuclear?

            Our Lord said to Light of Mary, December 24, 2013…

            I preached before the Doctors of the Law, and their arrogance led them to signal Me out and to scorn Me. Doctors and non-doctors scrutinize My Calls to bring them down; I am not believed and neither is My Mother. This is how I remain within the manger of the human heart: in some, exiled, in others, only looked upon once in a while; few are the souls who truly keep me warm and sympathize with My Pain.

            My Prophets announce the Warning for this humanity…, and for this cause they are mocked and discredited. I was condemned being innocent, like the majority of the martyrs…

            IN THIS INSTANT EVERY HUMAN PERSON MUST BE WILLING TO BE A MARTYR FOR MY CAUSE, AND A VOICE OF HOPE OF MY SECOND COMING.

    • Instigator

      More RCC propaganda.

  • Mary Shinn

    Julie said: “I wake up at 3 am to pray for the world and I am getting alot of feelings in side like I want to sob about life.”…

    To all fellow Christians, to the three groups, angels awaken people at 3:00 a.m. to pray. Pray for souls and for your special intentions, then fall back to sleep.

    Jesus revealed to Stanley of the Philippines, 3:00 a.m. like the 3:00 p.m. hour is very special. 3:00 a.m. is the hour of Our Lord’s Resurrection.

    • Jesse

      What is your scripture reference that tell about angels waking people at 3 AM and Jesus rising at 3 AM. There are none in God’s word. The 3 o’clock hours at as important to everyone and any other poin in time.

      • Mary Shinn

        Hi Jesse, thanks for asking.

        This revelation is a private revelation. God speaks to every generation through the prophets. Prophecy is important, God makes explicit His plan and prophecy is listed second in 1 Cor 12:28.

        Are you being awakened at 3:00 a.m.? Good deal if you are.

        • Jesse

          I usually share any “private” revelations” that I receive because it may be prophecy for all.

          HI Mary, fact is I seldom sleep well enough to say I was awakened at any particular time for any purpose by anyone spiritual or criminal.. Seems like I see my clock at 2 AM and 4AM and then I usually get up at 4, take my morning meds and lay back down for an hour or so. I just thought it was a little strange that you are wakened so regularly at a certain time and believe it to be a manifestation of God’s messengers doing it on purpose, so I thought to ask if you had a scripture to share or if it was totally personal experience.
          I think Jeff may have a serious problem, a lot of people have problems with certain Catholic teachings but some of his remarks are ‘way out there’.

  • Jeff Marshall

    Julie, I am part of the “ekklesia” Jesus spoke of. I want nothing to do with the Great Harlot of Mystery Babylon, nor her daughters. While I do believe in the 5-fold ministry of the scriptures, as well as the scriptural leadership positions within a local ekklesia (“the called out ones” who are the church, the Bride, the Body of Christ) such as elders/deacons/bishops, I believe when they are genuine & true, God appoints them among the brethren by the Holy Spirit, not man. As brother Leonard Ravenhill used to say, “I am not part of any abomination, I mean denomination.” All the inventions of man & flesh. Our local ekklesia meets in a home & preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ, according to the scriptures, on the streets, to our friends/neighbors/family/coworkers/strangers/etc.
    Do you not know the scriptures where Jesus says plainly, “call no man father on earth, for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”? (Matthew 23:9). And yet, you call the pope “holy father”? Or do you not know the scriptures which say “1 Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;…forbidding to marry…” (1 Timothy 4:1-3). And yet, “priests”, “popes” & “nuns” are forbidden to marry? And do you not know the scriptures which say “5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;” (1 Timothy 2:5) & yet the RCC says you need priests & popes to mediate & actually claims in papal writings that Mary (a mere woman) is “co-mediatrix” & “co-redemptrix”? I could go on all day long, but if the scriptures were not enough to convince you (God’s Word, 17 Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth. – Jesus in John 17:17) then why doesn’t the fruit of the RCC convince you of its error? “By their fruit you will recognize them…a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree good fruit” – Jesus in Matthew 7:15-20 speaking of false prophets. Why doesn’t the rampant worldwide plague of child molestation, pedophilia, cause you to question your religion? If the leaders of your religion like to have sex with little boys, & the whole world knows it (please don’t deny this very obvious fact), then wouldn’t that, if nothing else (even God’s very Word) give you pause as to the religion you are championing, defending & involved in? Child molestation!? Do you have children? I do. 5 of them & 1 on the way. You could leave your children in my care & I would love & care for them like my own. If you leave them in the care of your religion’s leadership they are in danger of being raped, violated, molested, sexually abused & tortured. Think of what you are defending? A religion whose rampant fruit is the most detestable of acts known or imaginable. C’mon! Think about that

    • Julie

      So you go to heaven slurring devout people as whores??

      Good luck.

      • Instigator

        Are not Mormons devout? Are not Seventh Day Adventists and JWs devout? Come on, think about it. Good luck.

        • Gallibus

          God wants to love them too – as He does.

          • Instigator

            That is off the topic. So following your logic, He loves them, and therefore surely not punish them for their sins or being in apostasy/false gospel. Oh, and He loved Esau, too. Hmmm.

          • Gallibus

            “be one with Me … how I, the Lord, love you! see? My Sacred Heart is open and he who wants to step in It is welcome; you are all free to choose; if you choose My Sacred Heart, I will fill you, I will let you live in My Light, you will absorb from Me; I will nourish you, then I shall ask you if you are willing to share with Me; like a Spouse and a Bride we will share and I shall renovate you entirely with My Love;

            Lord, make everyone come back to You. Renew our generation as in times past.

            come then, come back to Me; I am not rejecting you; I am all Merciful and ever so Compassionate; acknowledge your sins, repent and be Mine; I-Am-He-Who-Saves, I am your Redeemer, I Am the Holy Trinity, all in One; I Am the Spirit of Grace and although your generation calls herself fatherless I am ready to forgive and forget and take back all those who have apostatised; My Holy Spirit of Grace is ready to lift and renew you; why continue to reduce your lands into deserts? are you not weary in having to live in wilderness? return to Me, be one of those who have sought My Wells and have found them; I shall renew you with My Perfection, with My Beauty, with My Glory; I mean to raise you in perfection so that your soul may live;

            I wish to speak to My beloved children; (1 The group of Athens.) I love them and My Love for them is eternal; I have called to show them My Heart and they have heard Me; they heard My cry from My Cross; I always desired to seduce their soul since they are My offspring; I desired this closeness to Me since the beginning of times; and from all eternity I wished them to love Me and adore Me their God; come, I wish to remind them how I can manifest Myself in different ways and in devout souls, revealing My secrets, revealing My Wisdom; I wish them to learn how to discern what comes from the Spirit and what comes from their subjectivity; since the beginning I have never ceased advising them to watch My Lips; lack of discernment produces unripe fruits, folly, presumption, it can only aggravate their hearts; I have raised them from their lethargy so that they may live, and I have waited for this Hour ever so impatiently; with Me they will learn; understand how My Spirit works; I love you all and I do not wish you to fall into folly, I do not wish you to be misled by your own subjectivity; be humble, stay small and allow Me to feed you in the way I have chosen;

            I shall never cease watching over you; I, the Lord, give you My Blessings, My Love and My Peace; …’

            July 28, 1989 True Life in God Message

          • Instigator

            RCC gibberish.

          • Gallibus

            I have a good friend who is a Jehovah Witness. When I showed her the Lord’s Messages she exclaimed, ‘But that sounds so Catholic!’ This was so funny for me because of course the Lord’s Messages sound Catholic – Jesus is after all the Head of the Catholic Church and the Pope is His vicar or representative on earth to whom He gave the Keys of the Kingdom to bind or to loose, to forgive sins, to teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit . So, if you recognize Catholic teachings in the Lord’s Messages that is a positive step forward for you and a clue to where your life’s journey should lead you. God bless you.

          • Instigator

            My life’s journey leads me Christ. Christ brings me unto the Creator. Much off what you state reminds of Mormonism. Same religious jargon and belief framework. The same god is the head of them both – the Devil. Both place men between the religious adherent and the Savior. Both are unbiblical. There is no vicar; there is no prophet between man and his Creator. There is the sinner and the Mediator. The keys of the kingdom belong to Christ alone.

            To state that the pope has the authority to bind or loose, to forgive sins, etc. is a lie from the pit. If you are going to try and me convince of such hellish things there is little need for you to continue this conversation. That religiosity is not of God. Listen to what I am saying hear. That is a place to where I will not go. That stuff is so ungodly that it offends God and therefore offends me deeply. To say that I need the vicar is such utterly contemptable that I would die a martyr and renounce such evil to my dying breath. I know this will be found offensive to you but this is the reality of it – you really need to take this up with God, not me. What you are neck deep into is of your father the Devil. Only God can lead you. I can do nothing and the RCC can do nothing about your state before God. Pray that He leads unto righteousness and the Kingdom of Heaven.

          • Gallibus

            “I have much to tell you but it would be too much for you now.”

    • fjacks

      Hey, Jeff, give us a break. You know that Christ only has one body. All who declare that Jesus is The Lord do so only by the Holy Spirit and thus members of that one body. You also know that there is one baptism through which we are all adopted children of God. The divisions in the church are a scandalous abomination and make it nearly impossible for the world to believe that there is One God who sent his Son for our salvation. Francis is a welcome and prophetic embodiment of Peter, the rock, calling all Christians to seek the unity for which Jesus prayed so fervently and laid down his life for. You may be among the members of the body that don’t believe that unless we partake of the body of Christ and drink his blood we don’t possess the Life of the Father and the Son. So be it. Perhaps one day you will believe. On that day we will be able to gather at one table and by partaking of the One Bread and the One Cup become one body, one spirit in Christ. Peace be with you!

      • Shosh 7154

        Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

        Matthew 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

        Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

        • Gallibus

          The wedding garment is Christ himself – unless He clothes us with Himself we will be cast out.

          • Shosh 7154

            and WHO is the Messiah….Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
            As you say, put on THE WORD OF G-D, not doctrines of men. Catholicism does not line up with the Word of G-d and many who believe this doctrine of men will be like that man…speechless even though they will have no excuse because the Word of G-d was near them all the days of their lives but they chose to be covered by another word.

          • Gallibus

            ‘My father was a doctor and that makes me a medical expert’. Oh, my goodness, you don’t expect us to fall for that, surely?

          • Shosh 7154

            Did you mean this comment for me? I am not certain you have the right person.

  • Jeff Marshall

    “28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
    Romans 3:28

    “1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”
    Romans 5:1

    “16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
    Galatians 2:16

    “11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.”
    Galatians 3:11

    “22 But the scripture has concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up to the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24 Why the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26 For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
    Galatians 3:22-26
    These verses of scripture were written by the Apostle Paul, not Luther – FYI, & that under inspiration of the Holy Spirit & infallible in the Word of God. And oh yeah, the Apostle Peter said “15 And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you;
    16 As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)

    • Shosh 7154

      Jeff, a Word for you

      Isaiah 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains
      Are the feet of him who brings good news,
      Who proclaims peace,
      Who brings glad tidings of good things,
      Who proclaims salvation,
      Who says to Zion,
      “Your God reigns!”

  • Jeff Marshall

    Julie, I am blessed to called & adopted into the kingdom of His marvelous light. You are claiming (even in your sarcasm) to be also. Difference is, my eyes were opened when I read the Word of God, repented, believed the Gospel & surrendered to Christ & was Born Again, just as the scriptures describe. You claim “enlightenment” from the teachings of the RCC that many are directly opposed to God’s Word. You claim your “magnificence” in extra-biblical (outside scripture) writings/teachings/doctrines & traditions of men & your adherence to them. I am telling you there was nothing good in me, I was beyond “reforming” & was “dead in trespasses & sins” & Christ saved me by grace when I believed & made me a new creature by His Spirit. You mock me for sharing the scriptures & leaning wholly on them & yet stake your eternity on the RCC teaching & herald it as infallible, just as the RCC official catechisms & dogma has made themselves “infallible”. Blasphemy!

    • Robert Bbb

      Thats good that you were “saved” by grace, also all the sacraments and Church teachings mention the need of Jesus grace to function. I would hope you read something from the RCC catechism to see what is written inside instead of just mentioning statements without doing any research/reading on the catechism book.

      • Julie

        I gave them one piece from the CCC and they ignored it.

        They choose falsehood over truth.

      • Instigator

        I would bet that those who subscribe to the tenets of the Satanic Bible would say the same thing. Both are outside of the Word of God. They are words of men and words of demonic nature. The only purpose in studying them would be to understand where a Catholic is coming from. Since it is not my calling to witness to Catholics or Satanists there is little need to do so. So to tell those outside of the RCC to study it makes little sense. Do you think Paul would have really preached such dogmas? Not for a moment.

        • Gallibus

          St Paul was one of the first Catholics – so definitely what he taught in Scripture is surely Catholic. The ‘correctionists’ that came later – much later after Christ – felt that they had to correct Christ while not even knowing Him.

          • Jesse

            Apostle Paul was NOT a Catholic. The Simonists were his constant problem.

          • Instigator

            Paul was Catholic, wow, how does a mind get so twisted to even consider such a statement valid?

    • Tom york

      Amen bro. Jeff

    • Gallibus

      You sound like a chicken with its head stuck on a line – just can’t look any further even if its life depends on it. You have been justified by your acceptance and faith in Jesus – now do what He says and allow Him to sanctify you – that can’t happen outside the Catholic or Orthodox faiths (which incidentally will soon be united under ‘Peter’ the Pope – not because I want it but because it is the Lord’s expressed Will and intention. Watch and see!)
      Unless you partake of the sacraments there will be no (supernatural) life in you and no forgiveness of sins in the sacrament of Penance. You can do it the way Jesus Christ ordained it or take the alternative way. You have a choice in this life – not in the next.
      Even if you don’t realize it, you are the one who blasphemes and so I pray that the Lord enlightens you while there is still time.

      • Jesse

        You have a real ‘TWIST’ going there, Gall.

      • Instigator

        Peter was never a pope. You simply cannot cut and paste reality.

  • adam hordos

    Today the Anglicans announced they are removing the word satan out of their baptismal rite. The very reason male and female fell in the garden. But it matters not because Anglicans and the rest are not what Jesus prayed for that we all be one. He was referring to the universal Church, , Jewish people , muslin people. the protesters are irrelevant.

    • Instigator

      You cannot be serious. That is rubbish.

  • Jeff Marshall

    Adam, right. They aren’t “irrelevant” in the sense that they “don’t matter to God” or that we shouldn’t care. On the contrary, we should love them enough to preach the truth of Jesus Christ & “the gospel of God’s Grace” (as it is clearly called in Acts 20:24 & elsewhere) so that the deceived may know the Truth (“Thy Word is Truth” – John 17:17 & “Then you shall know the truth & the truth shall set you free” – John 8:32, both Jesus’ direct quotes in scripture) that they may repent, believe the Gospel, be born again, & live. I know what you meant, but for clarity’s sake lets remember “God is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9) & he “chose the foolishness of preaching to save men” (1 Corinthians 1:18-31). If not for His Grace opening my eyes to the truth in His Word, I too would still be blind, walking around in darkness, & thinking I was wise and justified before God & man somehow in my own self-deceived ignorance. God is pleading through His Word even now, “repent, believe the Gospel & live or you all shall likewise perish”!

  • Instigator

    If you are going to make a blanket statement that more Protestants killed Catholics than the other way around you need to study the history of England and from the ninth century onward. King Edward kicked out the Jews. There is a lot going on there.
    How you mix the apostles in with that is odd. What rites did the apostles observe? They were Jewish by birth. As for hierarchy, that is of man. Jesus is a saved person’s mediator. There is no need for a rigid hierarchy. Once again, religion is deadly.

    • Julie

      There are all kinds of religion.

      The one that I believe is Christian, and the effects of Sacred Scripture is entering into communion with the Holy Trinity, not damning other people.

      You need to study more. The Catholic monasteries supported the surrounding populations, and many were forced to renounce their Catholic faith. The English also planted the notorious Scot Pitts i Northern Island, whose hatred of Catholics has been something we have witnessed in modern times. The english killed thousands of the Catholics in England, King Henry was married numerous times, and died of syphilis, and the English took the produce from the Irish and sent it to Britain causing many deaths. They also made Gaelic illegal, and impoverished the people of Ireland. How many died because of their hatred?

      It is Protestantism that legalized divorce that brought about the fragmentation of families, it is the English writers who created all sorts of tall tales about the Catholics of which we see here on this thread.

      No you are way too bias to have much credibilty.
      Your religion is based on hatred of the Catholic Church. You ignorantly ignore the Orthodox. You justify your superiority by promoting all the English spins. You should spend more time on Christ of Whom you claim you are saved by Him.
      May be you need to let go of thinking you are saved, and seek the Lord more to find out all you don’t know about Him.

      If you remove your anti Catholic bias, you will see you don’t have much to stand on.

      • Instigator

        Another know-it-all. Get on with your bad self. I am not going to waste my time with closed-minded people.

        • Gallibus

          Yet, you already have done that to an alarming degree.

          • Instigator

            Talk intelligently. I am tired of antagonistic mental attitudes that portray themselves superior by belittling others.

        • Julie

          It is from you, and your damnation of people who have practiced the same faith for 2000 years.

          We pray daily for the perseverance of the just and the conversion of sinners….note, not naming or judging anyone.

          • Instigator

            Having a cerebral conversation is rather difficult here. I damn no one. I judge no one saved and lost. You are being defensive because some of us questioning Roman Catholicism. Yet Catholics accuse all others of doing the same thing. They get on here and brag about their Church like a homosexual and their agenda. It is insulting just as you are taking my last statement in the same vein. How many non-Catholics get on here and make it a big deal of how proud they are of their denomination? It is not them that make this an issue. If you are so firm in your faith then why would any of this even get your attention to such a degree? If someone states that, since I do not attend some “sect” as you call it, the obviously I must be lost. I do not take issue with that. God has told us that we will suffer persecution.
            My statements are not as a milk toast believer. There is Israel of God and then there are those who are not yet come out of Babylon. Who God calls out is not up to me and I only judge the fruit to determine who to fellowship with. I care not what religion they are. It is what they believe. God chooses who is called out and blinds the rest and for how long they stay in that condition. Man has nothing to do with salvation. It is all of God. A religious organization is a Thing. I do not worship a Thing; I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Christ is my Mediator. The Holy Spirit testifies of the Savior. The simplicity of Christ should not be muddied by the traditions of men. That means Easter, Christmas, religious observances, and everything else that is unbiblical. If was set forth in the Old Testament, then it probably is of man, not God. It is not Israel of God (His church) that is divided but it is the other church that is divided, the one in the outer court. Some will leave it and enter into the inner court others will not. But again, that is not for me to determine nor know who will and who won’t.

          • Gallibus

            Re: ‘How many non-Catholics get on here and make it a big deal of how proud they are of their denomination?”

            Reply: It is surely difficult to be proud of one’s rebellion especially when one has no divine authority to teach and when one goes on man’s interpretation which is an adaptation to suit man.

          • Instigator

            You, dear sir, are a pompous and immature ass.

          • Gallibus

            It just goes to show that even a pompous and immature ass can see the truth whereas your blinkers are still on; give them a break and take them off.

          • Instigator

            Ok…..

    • Julie

      Likewise don’t bother responding…as you can’t absorb it. you and others like you get no where but only hang yourselves.

      • Instigator

        says the mindless you…..

  • Gallibus

    If your leader falls into a pit, will you not surely follow him? Therefore if you think that you can follow some catholic doctrines and yet believe that they are all going to Hell, are you not then yourself on the same track?

  • Dolly

    Beloved, I don’t want you to argue
    back and forth over things you disagree with. You do not have to prove
    yourself to be correct or right. Instead, hold your beliefs close to your
    heart and examine them with My Word as the standard. It is not up to you
    to convince others to be like you or to align their concepts with yours, says
    the Lord. Be free and let others enjoy the same freedom of choice.
    Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every
    day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

    • Shosh 7154

      I came for one purpose….to bear witness to the Truth
      Who said that ?

  • Jesse

    I can see that you are very devoted and sincere in your Catholic beliefs. You seem to be rather angry at ALL the non Catholics and consider them/us to all be ‘bashers’ and it isn’t true. Many Catholic beliefs and teachings ARE NOT scriptural and in many cases downright rebellious to the will of God. While it’s true that many Protestants are little more than haters/bashers, many more would like to see the misguided Catholics learn the truth of God’s word and give up the paganism of catholicism. To this day no Catholic has justified with scripture the complaints that have been issued at your organization.
    The Catholic Church IS NOT a full gospel Christian Church and never has been; I won’t go into the details as you have heard them all before. Our Christian History was not established in the 1890s it began with the apostles and the 120 long ago at Pentecost. You will have this all explained to you at later time.

  • Jeff Marshall

    Dolly, that is playing fast & loose with the text. Romans 14 is talking (in context) about celebrating certain holy days or not. You can’t apply that to something totally different, which is believing another Gospel, inter posing praying to dead saints, calling a man “holy Father” when specifically forbid by scripture, aligning with a belief system which calls Mary Co-Redeemer/Co-Mediatrix, a cultish demonic doctrine which forbids its leadership to marry, changing the Gospel of God’s Grace received by faith to a religion whose “salvation” is of faith AND works (so noone has assurance of salvation within it), etc., etc.
    That kind of taking scripture out of context is dangerous. It’s actually what the devil tried to do to Jesus in the wilderness temptation. Jesus fought his temptations with “it is written”, so then the devil tried to “twist” (pervert) the scriptures (“throw yourself down from here, for is it not written ‘He will give His angels charge over thee, lest thee dash your foot against a stone’). Of course Jesus having God’s Spirit, knowing the scriptures, & their intent & context said, “it is also written, ‘Do not put he Lord your God to the test.”
    I have shown dozens of scriptures (most direct quotes from Jesus, & both doctrinal & prophetic scriptures from the Apostles Paul, Peter, John, etc. from the epistles) in context that show the RCC & its heretical doctrines to be false. In 1 John it says “he who says the son did not come in the flesh is of the antichrist” (1 John 4:3 & 2 John 1:7) & yet RCC official papal doctrine (which they say is as infallible or more than the Word of God) says “there is a path (to heaven) for Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.? Direct opposition to God, His Word – the Truth!
    I mean, I could pull a verse wrongly out of context and say to stop bickering over differences, “how pleasant s it is when brethren dwell together in unity” (Psalm 133), but the question then obviously is, “who are my brethren?” Mormons believe in Jesus, but a different Jesus than the one of the Bible. Muslims believe in Jesus (they call him Isa in the Hadith or the Koran), but not as the Jesus of the Bible. Even many Hindus & Buddhists believe Jesus was a “great teacher & prophet”, but they don’t believe in the Jesus of scripture or His Gospel. Are these my “brethren”? No, of course not! We are not, as RCC & the world falsely claims, “ALL children of God.” The Bible teaches something vastly different. We are all children of the devil (“you are of your father the devil” – Jesus in John 8:44) unless/until we repent, believe the Gospel and are “Born Again” & then we are “adopted by the spirit of son ship & transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His marvelous light” (Romans 8:15 & Colossians 1:13).
    I’m not disagreeing with my brethren. I am just preaching the Gospel of God’s grace & sharing the scriptures (lots of them in context) with people who believe in a different Jesus, a different Gospel, a different faith, of a different spirit, and who scripture says are condemned outside the faith unless they repent, believe the one true Gospel laid out on the scriptures (not by the RCC) & get born again of the Spirit of God.
    In fact, we are not to dwell in unity with everyone. We are to love & live at peace with everyone (as far as depends on us) & to preach the Gospel to the world that they may be saved (Romans 12:18, Mark 16:15). In fact, we are commanded to correct by the Word!
    “1 I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
    2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine.
    3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned to fables.
    5 But watch you in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of your ministry. – 2 Timothy 4:1-5
    And we are not to even eat with people who call themselves brethren and yet live as the world: 1 Corinthians 5:9-11
    9 I wrote to you in an letter not to company with fornicators:
    10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortionists, or with idolaters; for then must you needs go out of the world.
    11 But now I have written to you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionist; with such an one no not to eat.
    12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not you judge them that are within?
    13 But them that are without God judges. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
    You see, truth matters & Jesus said “sanctify them Father by the Truth: Thy Word is Truth” (John 17:16-17). We can’t make it up all as ergo along or we will be like God says of a wicked generation in the book of Judges (chapter 21) “every man did what was right IN HIS OWN EYES” (which was a negative condemnation of them). Open your eyes & question the RCC by comparing its lies to the Word of God. Why do you think they burned at the stake millions of believers over the centuries as heretics for just wanting their own Bible to read for themselves? Why did they persecute men like John Bunyon (who wrote Pilgrim’s Progress, the 2nd most read book ever only to the Bible), William Tyndale (for translating the Bible in the common language so the common poor plow boy could read it & know God for himself), etc., etc.?
    And if all that doesn’t penetrate your heart/conscience, look at the RCC’s fruit: millions of little boys molested for decades upon decades & they just try to cover it up? And that’s the religion you trust to teach you about what God is like? Child molesters? C’mon! Wake up! Read the Word of God for yourself & seek God honestly & humbly for the truth to reveal Himself to you. If you were wrong/deceived, would you want to know it? Or are you too comfortable in your belief even if its wrong to want to be corrected even by God Himself by His Word & His Spirit?

    • Robert Bbb

      You judge things that you don’t understand since you dont even pick up a catholic book or catechism to read what we really believe.
      Romans 14:10 says, Why then do you judge your brother ?….. For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of God.

    • donsh

      Jeff, talk about playing fast and loose? You are really kicking it!!

      1. Your gospel certainly does not conform to sacred Scripture.
      2. If the Apostles Creed affirms the “communion of the saints,” then they certainly are NOT dead.
      3. If calling a man “Father” is all you’ve got, it’s pretty thin.
      4. Vatican II specifically rejected proclaiming Mary co-anything. She is Theotokos, God bearer, that is, Mother of God, that is, mother of the divine nature as well as the human.
      5. That clerics not marry is a discipline, not a doctrine. As it already exists among the Orthodox, the discipline of the West can change, especially since we allow deacons to marry now, and Anglican clergy who are already married before they join the Roman church may continue in their married state.
      6. In 1999 the Catholic and the Lutheran Churches specifically affirmed salvation by faith alone. Good works are the fruit of salvation, not the cause of it.

      After the paragraph of false charges against the Catholic Church, you descend into gibberish that I will not take the time to interpret.

      Jesus urged us to love our enemies and do good to those who would hurt us. If you can’t love Catholics as your brothers and sisters, at least love us as your enemies. However, I will call you friend.

      • Shosh 7154

        mary is worshiped by many people who will physically attack you if you speak what I am writing… I know an evangelical missionary who told me that Catholics will kill you for speaking the truth about mary in their countries… she is no longer a virgin, she is a sinner saved by the blood sacrifice of the Son of G-d, her body is in the earth and awaits resurrection while her spirit is with G-d and between spirits of men and living men there shall be no concourse as it is written.. there is one MEDIATOR BETWEEN G-D AND MAN ONLY… HIS NAME YESHUA THE MESSIAH… you shall have no concourse with those who have passed and do not speak to the spirits of the dead….do you not see worship in this prayer spoken by every catholic….“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary… this is blasphemy and no one who prays like this will enter the Kingdom of G-d….Mixed worship is an abomination to G-d… read G-d’s words Zephaniah 1:5 And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the LORD, and that swear by Malcham; Zephaniah 1:2 I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD…to the L-rd, the queen of heaven is a pagan idol… look…Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto OTHER GODS, that they may PROVOKE ME TO ANGER.

        • donsh

          Isn’t it time to let go of this hyperbolic, false and over-the-top rhetoric and come together as brothers and sisters of the one Lord, sharing one Faith, baptized with the one baptism? You don’t know a single Catholic who would physically attack you – if you do, let me know – nor has anything in the religious poetry in honor of Mary indicated any sense of “worship.” Catholics agree with you that Yeshua, in English Jesus, is the one mediator. It’s time to let all this hatred go as Jesus exorcised the demons in his own day who screamed out against him and his message.

          • Shosh 7154

            I was in a park speaking to a Spanish speaking man who made a move toward me when I told him that Mary is a sinner saved by the Son of G-d, her body is buried in the earth awaiting resurrection and that she is no longer a virgin. There was man standing next to me who no doubt had a mitigating influence on the actions of that catholic man who was visibly upset by the truth.

          • donsh

            And how do you know that Mary, whom the angel addressed as “full of grace” and “favored one! The Lord is with you,” was a sinner? How do you know she is no longer a virgin, and how you define “virgin?” Your intemperate words, full of vitriol and judgment, upset me, too, but I would never physically assault you. I try to imitate Jesus’ words, full of the fruit of the Spirit, i.e., love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc., and greet you with compassion because of your obvious agitation about all things Catholic. I would invite you to “come and see, ” and “let us take counsel together” in order to assuage your anger and hostility.

          • Shosh 7154

            IMMACULATE CONCEPTION — Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception. (Catechism 490-492).

            In Luke 1:46-47, Mary said: “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Mary knew that she needed a savior. Sinless people do not need a Savior.

            ALL HOLY – Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life. (Catechism 411, 493)

            Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Revelation 15:4 says, “Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For thou only art holy.” Romans 3:10 says, “There is none righteous, no, not one.”

            It is notable that John, who took Mary into his home after Jesus was crucified, does not mention her in his epistles, and he only mentions her on two occasions in his Gospel (the wedding at Cana and the crucifixion of Jesus). John mentions Mary Magdalene more than he mentions Jesus’ mother.

            There is no biblical reference to the assumption of Mary. The Gospel of John was written around 90 A.D., which is more than 100 years after Mary was born. (Surely Mary was more than ten years old when Jesus was conceived.) If Mary had been supernaturally assumed into Heaven, wouldn’t John (the disciple that Mary lived with) have mentioned it? When Enoch and Elijah were taken up to Heaven, the Bible recorded it. With Elijah it was recorded in some detail. (See Genesis 6:24 and 2 Kings 2:1‑18.)

          • donsh

            I am delighted that you are familiar with the Catholic catechism. I am not enough of a historian or theologian to trace the development of the Catholic teaching about Mary without authority, However, you have not explained why the angel called Mary “full of grace” and asserted that “the Lord is with you.” I am reminded of the story from John’s gospel concerning the blind man who was examined and reexamined by the scribes and Pharisees who asserted that Jesus was a sinner. He reflected that God does not aid sinners. I would aver that angels, messengers of God, would not assert that the Lord was with someone who was a sinner. And there is nothing in the Bible that records any sin that Mary could have/would have committed.

            You argue that John would have recorded Mary’s assumption. I would argue that John’s writings were focused only on Jesus and his message and his mission; he wasn’t interested in providing biographical details of any other person. How could either of us possibly know the mind of John? Who are we to tell him what he should have done. Tradition says that John found/built a house for Mary outside Ephesus, and she lived there for the rest of her life. Interestingly, there is no tomb or shrine to be found of Mary anywhere in the land.

            I assume that you give little credence for developments in our understanding of God’s saving intervention in human life after the end of the period of the New Testament. However, the faith of the Christian community from that time to this has consistently believed that Mary was never buried. The Orthodox refer to her “dormition,” her going to sleep, and likewise believe that her body is in heaven. I can’t prove them right or wrong. What I can’t explain or prove, I accept on faith because my church believes. I am conservative about things of which I know little or nothing; what I have studied and understand I am willing to offer conclusions.

            I find it interesting and intriguing that, as the centuries have unfolded, only Mary has had bodily appearances to the faithful. But I am sure that you don’t believe any of it.

            That’s OK. Mary is only human; only Jesus is God. Our faith rests on our relationship with him, not with Mary, so we can hold Mary in relatively greater or lesser esteem and not affect our Christian faith. But it is interesting that even Mohammed valued Mary.

          • Shosh 7154

            I stay strictly with the Word of G-d. Miryam is a sinner saved by the Son of G-d …she had 4 sons after Yeshua. She died and her body is buried in the earth. I do not pray to dead people or place ANYONE on the level of THE ONLY G-D. To the LAW and THE PROPHETS, if they speak NOT ACCORDING TO THESE, there is NO LIGHT in them. Yeshua is the Law and the Prophets (Isaiah 8:20) HIS NAME IS THE WORD OF G-D (Revelation 19:13)

          • donsh

            Lovely rant, but your details about Miryam are not in the Word of God. You and I are not dialoguing; you are ranting and I am trying to find some common ground – characterized by the fruits of the Spirit – where we can come together. Since this is not possible, this is my last reply.

          • Gallibus

            Where is her body buried in the Earth? If the early Christian (Catholics) of old venerated her so much, how is it that they haven’t noted her grave? Where do the Scriptures say Mary was a sinner? On the contrary, the Scriptures call her full of grace – did thy lie? If you do not pray to dead people, then why do you pray to Jesus – He died and was buried? Who were these extra sons of Mary – where are they named or mentioned in the Scriptures? you have placed yourself on the level of God by relying on your own misinterpretations instead of believing the Truth as conserved in the Church that Jesus established and maintains to this day for our sanctification.

          • Shosh 7154

            Shalom Gallibus, I love your questions….

            You asked “where do the Scriptures say Mary was a sinner”

            In Luke 1:46-47, Mary said: “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Mary knew that she needed a savior. Sinless people do not need a Savior.

            You asked about HIS brothers and sisters born from His mother.

            Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, except James the Lord’s brother.

            Matthew 1:24-25 says, “Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And KNEW HER NOT UNTIL she had brought forth her FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name JESUS.” The word KNEW means to have sex with as in Genesis 4:1 where Adam “knew” Eve and she conceived and had a son.

            Saying First Born is a Messianic Title but also indicates that Yeshua is the first Son of other sons that will follow … if Yeshua were the ONLY SON OF MARY, then calling HIM FIRSTBORN would be misleading as people would assume He had other brothers born after Him.

            Jesus had brothers and sisters. The Bible even tells us their names. Matthew 13:54-56 says,

            “And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hatch this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brothers, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us?” Identifying His family members by name because they were astonished that this normal MAN had the very wisdom of G-d Himself. You can see also His physical brothers listed here in these verses: Matthew 12:46; John 2:12; John 7:3; Acts 1:14; and Galatians 1:19.

            You asked where is her body buried. How many people have died in the last 2,000 years? Can you find all the graves of this colossus number of people?

            You asked: If you do not pray to dead people, then why do you pray to Jesus? Raised from Hell on the third day as was foretold by the prophets (Psalm 16:10) HE IS ALIVE FOREVER MORE…

            Allow me to introduce you to HIS MAJESTY YESHUA JESUS THE LORD WHOSE NAME IS THE WORD OF GOD.

            BEFORE AVRAHAM WAS…… I A M… John 8:58

            YESHUA JESUS called HIMSELF the GREAT I AM, THE G-D OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB

            Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the GREAT G-D and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

            John 14:9 Jesus said to him, Have I been so long a time with you, and yet you have not known me, Philip (Gallibus)? he who has seen Me has seen (G-d) the Father; and how do you say then, Show us (G-d) the Father ?

            Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

            Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, (Psalms 96:4 For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods.) to the glory of God the Father.

            Revelation 19:13 And HE was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and HIS NAME is called THE WORD OF GOD.

            GOD PLACED HIS WORD ABOVE HIS OWN NAME….
            Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

          • Gallibus

            The same old tired satanic misinterpretations and half-truths. Go study with an authentic teacher or stay in your denial.

          • Shosh 7154

            Can you answer to one of the above verses which you refer to as “satanic”?

          • Gallibus

            I said the misinterpretations were satanic – not the verses. Brother is to be interpreted as kinfolk – in any case, not necessarily siblings. Mary was ever a virgin – even after the miraculous birth of Jesus. The Church has always taught this.
            What about those that died before the Victory of Christ – were they cut off from the saving effects of the Saviour’s victory? No, that would not be just. It is difficult for us to understand the concept of time and timelessness and eternity – but the effects of the Saviour’s victory can be applied to those that died before Him. So it is quite possible for Mary to have the benefits of the Saviour’s victory applied from her conception – if God so wished. Apparently, He did so wish.
            Sinless people do not need a saviour? But if Heaven’s door is shut then it is shut. Since the fall of Adam and Eve, the gate of Heaven was shut to all humanity.
            I like this part about ‘if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father’: The way I see it is like this: If I said you were like your father, this would be understood in the context that your father is older than you and while looking possibly the same as you look now at a similar age, at the present time the differences of age make a difference to your appearance. But the Father and the Son are eternal and there is no ‘age difference’. So if they look exactly the same then when you have seen one then you have seen the other. A bit like identical twins. And especially when the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father, then even more when you have seen the one then you have seen the other.
            As to praying to dead people, do you not believe in your own resurrection? If your soul is a spirit and eternal, then what is it doing buried in the ground? It does not belong there. One should not pray to the dead generally because, if they are damned then that can endanger one’s soul; but if they are in Heaven – as God has attested to by performing miracles to affirm their successful intercession to him for souls, then there is no danger but, on the contrary benefits because they are the friends of God and their intercession is powerful.

          • Instigator

            As in only the Catholics have the truth. Give me a break. You deny the power of God.

          • Instigator

            You really need to read your Bible.

          • Instigator

            You are not enough of a historian and theologian yet you and many others in the same state will press us on having the answers and the error of our non-Catholic state. Wow.

          • donsh

            Are you enough of a historian and theologian? If so, answer the biblical question I asked above about the angel of God declaring that the Lord is with Mary. Scripture cannot deny itself. If Mary was chosen by God to bear the Messiah, “for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit,” [Matthew 1:20] then she is clearly the Mother of God – unless you deny that the Messiah is Jesus.

            Where did the Sacred Scriptures come from if not from the communities of disciples who accepted Jesus as Messiah and Lord? How did those communities sift through all the books that were written at the time to determine which contained the authentic Word of God? What was the process, and was it guided by the Holy Spirit? (If not, then the whole Bible is open to question.)

            These are serious questions for both historians and theologians. Please dialogue with me and not harangue me with statements that contradict the clear teaching of Sacred Scripture (the Bible, if you will, or the Word of God). All of us are looking for Jesus as the Way, the Truth, and the Life. There is only one God and Father of us all, so let us pray and study together without ignoring each other’s sincere questions.

            At the end, however, realize that we are going to be judged by whom we have loved and served, and not by what we profess to believe. There is no written test in order to enter heaven.

          • Instigator

            Mary is the mother of the human body of Jesus Christ. Mary is not the mother of God. God existed long before Mary was born. How you can call Mary the mother of God is beyond me. Also, in the beginning was the Word…where was Mary? Yet unborn. I do not see any sense in pursuing this topic. It is too religious. And, I like God, am not religious. My Savior is Jesus Christ who is without beginning or end. Amen.

          • Instigator

            “At the end, however, realize that we are going to be judged by whom we have loved and served, and not by what we profess to believe. There is no written test in order to enter heaven.”
            We are judged by…say what? That is not what Jesus and the prophets said, not to mention the apostles. Completely disagree.

          • donsh

            Thank you for confirming that you don’t know what Jesus has said. “Love one another as I have loved you.” “What you have done to the least of my brethren you have done to me.”
            Etc., etc., etc. Read the Gospels.

          • donsh

            Since you obviously do not wish to dialogue on this topic, I respect your decision. Also, since you are not religious (interested in topics of religion), clearly you are neither an historian regarding religion nor a theologian and cannot answer my question mentioned earlier. And, since you are neither, you are not capable of making an authoritative judgment about Mary or Jesus. You may continue to make unfounded (and false) assertions about religion, but you have no credibility.

          • Instigator

            blah, blah,blah. who cares what you think.

          • donsh

            I think that you DO care, and that you are searching for the Truth. I am willing to accompany you on your journey. I don’t know everything, but what I do know is confirmed by the history and theology that I have studied. If you ever want to join the search with me, let me know. God bless.

          • Instigator

            Everyone has sinned except the Messiah and Savior!

          • Gallibus

            He was visibly upset by your blasphemy, more like! God was also insulted by you.

          • Shosh 7154

            Whom am I blaspheming ? Mary ? A woman who was conceived in sin and born in corruption just like the rest of humanity as it is written?

            Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity (deliberate sin); and in sin did my mother conceive me.

            How can I blaspheme a human being ? Is not the dictionary meaning of blasphemy this….. “the act of claiming the attributes of deity” …. who then is blaspheming? The one who claims the attributes of a deity for a woman, or a man or demon, or the moon, the stars, golden calves, etc.

          • Gallibus

            You can blaspheme against God’s holiness in badmouthing His holy Mother. You are being highly offensive to the Most High God. Repent or discover the wrath of God in due course. You will never be welcome in Heaven while you badmouth the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of God. But satan will mock you for your stupidity in falling for his lies and be glad that he found a victory against God in defiling you.

          • Shosh 7154

            Which verse are you referring to as “bad mouthing”?

          • Gallibus

            ‘A woman who was conceived in sin and born in corruption just like the rest of humanity as it is written?’

            That is bad mouthing the Mother of God. Mary is not a deity and Catholics do not worship her but honour her as the Mother of Jesus, the second person of the Most Holy Trinity, the one that God created for His Redemptive Plan, chose and honoured as no other human being, and crowned as the Queen of Heaven (not in your Bible but in the revelation of God from which you have cut yourself off since you have fallen for the heresy of sola scriptura). If you had any idea of the glory of heaven or of the majesty of God, you too would honour her appropriately.

          • Instigator

            WHAT!!!?????

          • Shosh 7154

            All are sinners. All means all. You are having trouble with the Word of G-d, not me.

            Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

            Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

          • Gallibus

            Does your ‘all’ include Christ then? He was also a man.

          • Shosh 7154

            You say “does your all include Messiah”

            Look closely at the words I posted. Are those my words or the words of men?

            Who said this about sin….

            Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

            1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

            Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

            James 1:15 …sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

            Do you now include G-d among sinners by asking does “all” written in the verses above include G-d as a sinner?

          • Gallibus

            I am glad that we agree that Jesus as God cannot sin. What we don’t agree on is God’s prerogative to create Mary for His particular purpose and to exempt her from the effects of Original Sin so that she would be a fitting and holy vessel for His Son Jesus and would be, in effect, a second Eve just as Jesus became the second Adam to undo the damage caused by the fall of Adam and Eve.

          • Shosh 7154

            Please give me the verses stating that Mary never sinned. She herself admitted her own need for a Saviour. Does G-d need a Saviour ?

          • Gallibus

            Mary is known in the Catholic Church as the Immaculate Conception which means she was conceived without stain of original sin. Google it – you will get all the info you need. But if you still want to keep your Bible blinkers on then all the info in the world won’t help you.

          • Shosh 7154

            Can you give me the verse (s) proving your statement?

          • Instigator

            GOD HAS NO MOTHER! HE IS ALPHA AND OMEGA! GET IS RIGHT! The queen of heaven is Semiramis (one of her many names) whom you refer as the Catholic Mary. The cakes…all that…really prove your own faith before stabbing me in the eyes.

          • Instigator

            Blasphemy to the Pope but God smiled! You are clueless in you delusion.

          • Mary Shinn

            donsh,

            Thanks for your loving words for unity, all Christians love Our
            Lord, the Father and God the Holy Spirit. And no one worships Mary, you are right, worship is for God alone.

            Mentioning 1 Tim 2:5, folks must look at Scripture in context,
            the verses surrounding 1 Tim 2:5 and not isolate a verse to prove their interpretation. Look at the original writings. The KJV translators changed “redemption” in 1 Tim 2:6 to “a ransom for all.”

            1 Tim 2:6
            Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.

            Jesus is the One mediator of REDEMPTION between

            God and men. God desires our help in His plan of redemption. We are subordinate mediators, one example,
            people who pray are subordinate mediators. A ministerial priest of the New Covenant is a subordinate mediator.

            http://www.drbo.org/

        • Julie

          Doubt that the Church would ever do that. St. Paul talks about false doctrines of latter days.

          Your kind is go over to these poor indigenous people with your false doctrines and blaspheming Christ’s mother who should be a model of faith.

          I worked in the missions in Africa and the women were telling me about those in your kind of thinking. Anyway, they joined the Church.

          • Shosh 7154

            This is Catholicism:

            “If you want to see what a person’s real priorities are, then watch what they do when their life, or the life of a loved one, is in danger. When Pope John Paul II was shot, while the ambulance was rushing him to the hospital, the Pope was not praying to God or calling on the name of Jesus. He kept saying, over and over, “Mary, my mother!” Polish pilgrims placed a picture of Our Lady of Czestochowa on the throne where the Pope normally sat. People gathered around the picture. Vatican loudspeakers broadcasted the prayers of the rosary. When the Pope recovered, he gave Mary all the glory for saving his life, and he made a pilgrimage to Fatima to publicly thank her.”

          • Instigator

            But Mary is DEAD!

          • Shosh 7154

            Of course Mary is dead. Her body is in the ground and will stay there until the first resurrection. Her Spirit is with G-d because it is written that the spirit at death returns to G-d for judgment.

          • Gallibus

            And he is now in heaven. Point taken?

          • Shosh 7154

            He heard the Messiah ask…Friend where is your wedding garment (the Word of G-d)

        • Mary Shinn

          Shoosh,

          What is an “evangelical missionary” doing in a Catholic country? Why haven’t they gone to non-Christian countries
          to evangelize? It is so galling, Catholic countries have the
          fullness of the Faith.

          Tim Tebow’s Father went to Catholic Philippines to pull Catholics from the Faith to believe heresy.

          Jeremiah 7:18 is about non-Christians worshiping the sun, that verse is not about Our Lord’s mother.

          If you look at the Old Testament, the King’s mother is Queen. Follow thru in the New Covenant. The royal sounding “woman” in Revelation 12:1 is very royal sounding for she
          is Queen of Heaven and earth and she is the “woman” who
          brought forth the “man-child” further on in Revelation Chapter
          12.

          You will see better, Mary’s place in God’s plan during the
          “awakening.”

          GBY,

          • Instigator

            Wrong.

        • Kat

          The Catholic church that we attended for many years had a huge stature of Mary in a beautifully lit, alcove, directly behind the priest. Mary was the main focus.

          • Shosh 7154

            Kat, thank you for your honesty. The Truth is more important than life.

          • Gallibus

            Christ wants us to imitate Him in all things – even His love of His mother.

      • Instigator

        I can love Catholics but despise the RCC for what it truly is. But Catholics are NOT our brothers and sisters for they worship another Christ.

        • Gallibus

          Rubbish! You worship the Christ that the Catholics taught, teach and worship.

          • Instigator

            Impossible. Read the Bible. “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” [Galatians 1:6-9]

            “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.”

            “Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”

            “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.”

            “The priest is, indeed, another Christ, or in some way, he is himself a continuation of Christ.” (Pope Pius XI, Encylical on the Priesthood)

            Roman Catholicism teaches that the priest functions on earth as another Jesus Christ, as this quote from Pope Pius XI. This revelation is damning, because the Bible forbids us to follow “another Christ.”

            “Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” [Matthew 24:4-5] Notice that Jesus immediately stated that such claims would be great deception, and would be successful in deceiving “many.” Would you consider the Roman Catholic faithful, one billion strong, to constitute “many”? Further, I would consider the many thousands of Roman Catholic priests as “many” christs. Thus, in both sides of this coin, this Roman Catholic teaching qualifies as fulfillment of Jesus’ End Times prophecy.

            The priest who is claiming to be “another Christ” is also claiming to be the Word of God! This fact is very interesting, as it would explain why the Roman Catholic Church has consistently invented new teachings in the past 1,700 years. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” [John 1:1] Here we read the Truth that the Word of God is God Himself!

            The Apostle Paul literally said that all false teachers, propagating false Gospels, are to be “accursed”. The word literally means “go to Hell”. Certainly, the “other Gospel” propagated by the Roman Catholic Church richly deserves this kind of condemnation. Instead of the simple Plan of Salvation through Jesus Christ alone, in Faith in His mighty Grace, the Roman Catholic Church has substituted a very complex system that purports to save, but cannot ever save.
            What you believe is up to you. Buy I will never be subjected to the apostasy that you are trying to sell me.

          • Gallibus

            Re: “The priest is, indeed, another Christ, or in some way, he is himself a continuation of Christ.” (Pope Pius XI, Encyclical on the Priesthood).

            In that the priest continues to offer the sacrifice of Calvary in Jesus name and according to His instructions, he is indeed another Christ acting for Him and in His name.
            You have a serious problem with comprehension which seems to be brought about by the barrier of your huge bias against the Church of Christ, bad teaching and your own presumption in understanding. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. May God bless you in your quest for enlightenment and obedience to Him.

          • Instigator

            I am of the church of Christ. You are of the understanding of men. You are being quite presumptuous of the Holy See and the Vatican. They are not “Christian,” never was and never will be. Come out of her.

          • Gallibus

            Your understanding of history is clearly fallacious; where did you get it all – from a magician?. If you are of the church of Christ, you will do what He commanded. If you are outside of the Catholic Church, you are not following His precepts to the full and in fact you will have separated yourself from His requirements and teaching. Where and when, for example, do you ‘eat His body and drink His blood’? If you are not doing this then you have no life in your soul – this is Christ’s teaching. It is amazing to me that in order to sustain yourself in heresy and rebellion to God’s Word, you would go so far as to align yourself with the ‘first heretic’, a magician into the bargain! That is simply astounding and would be funny, if not pitiful, if it did not have such dire consequences for your soul. God bless you and – keep searching!

          • Instigator

            Says a follower of the Devil. Clueless. Get off your religious high horse and get a clue. To stay in the apostasy that you so endear is beyond the pale. I have no life…isn’t that just like a hypocritic Catholic to decide who is saved and who is lost? Judge away my friend. To make such determinations is for God alone. Matthew 15:11 states what is defiling you there. Since you relish being insulting how about you just go away and bother someone who is stupid enough to believe the unholy and satanic blasphemies that you so openly embrace? The first pope was Simon Magus which you are in league with yet you call me a magician. Nice try son of Satan. It is just like those of your ilk to try and turn the table like that. Do not worry about my soul for that is NONE OF YOUR CONCERN. Worry about your own. God will watch over me. Just pray that He will take notice of you and forgive you for trying to lead people down the wide path.

          • Gallibus

            Re: ‘I have no life…isn’t that just like a hypocritic Catholic to decide who is saved and who is lost? Judge away my friend. To make such determinations is for God alone.’

            Reply: Correct, God is the only judge. Since you are my Father’s child, I do worry about your soul and pray that the Lord may guide you and protect you from His enemies and yours.

    • Shosh 7154

      Amein to all that you have said and quoted

    • Gallibus

      “Work out your salvation in fear and trembling!’ – St Paul. When you are not open to God and His Will, then you miss all the action and your progress is necessarily stunted. The way you carry on, one would think that not even God is allowed a word after the last apostle died. Did God die then too? The Lord sends us His messengers in every age and we continue to ignore and even kill them. It is because we do not really believe in a living Almighty God and creator but we usurp His place putting ourselves in charge. So our little play-play god is no better than ourselves and has no glory or power to change us.
      “Praying to dead saints”: Don’t you believe in the eternal life? They are not dead because their souls are eternal and they are the friends of God since He has attested to this by granting miracles when these victorious souls have interceded for those that asked for favours.
      You have shown dozens of scriptures taken from the Bible which the Catholics put together centuries before the johnny-come-lately alternative religions decided to pervert the scriptures. They taught true doctrine from these same scriptures and still do. Where is the authority for the perverted understanding of these same Scriptures that the alternative religions teach? The perversions came from arrogant and mislead men, not from Christ. You have been deceived, which I think sometimes is worse than not knowing at all, because it is much harder to put aside long held beliefs even in the light of reason.

      • Instigator

        Looks like you are ready to start another Inquisition and set all of us “non-believers” straight. Wow. Talk about blindness.

        • Julie

          You are the one who is projecting…No what projection is?…it is hypocrisy.

          • Instigator

            You are the one hating all outside Catholicism.

          • Julie

            I don’t hate you or others who are not Catholic and I take someone to their protestant church every weekend.

            What I do hate is seeing denying the reality of the history of our same faith and practice for 2000 years, and making out we are an anti christ or we are whores or harlots — using the name of God and the Sacred Word of God, this claim started by Luther after his falling out…

            He removed 7 books of Scripture to fit his theology. Doesn’t that tell you something is wrong? I don’t follow any single person’s ideas but that given us by the Apostles…and to spend our time on Christ and promoting Christ and His doctrines of faith.

            The Word of God is to bring us to Christ, not hate Catholics…

            It is one thing to believe something, it is another thing to be willfully denying facts or refuse to learn who we truly are.

            Get a catechism. They are very cheap….read the sources I gave you…I pray for you….do you pray for me?

          • H2o2Bill

            Wow you all have set a record for most post on one topic that’s for sure. Julie I keep seeing you write as if Luther represents the Protestant faith. Luther did not get everything right and was just breaking free of Rome. The reformation started long before Luther this is well known. I can’t name all the men off the top of my head I don’t know it that well. I have investigated enough to know the living God of heaven always had a group of believers even if they were small in numbers outside of the Catholic Church this is also well known and documented. I don’t believe any denomination that has a hierarchy sitting over them is doing things the Bible way. I could give you many Bible verses to express what I believe to be true concerning my faith in Christ Jesus.

            I don’t want to debate with you at this time. I will ask that you keep an eye open and see how things unfold. It looks like the RCC is going to bend on moral issues like SSM.

            At some point in time your going to see the many errors of the RCC. Like yoking up with Islam and other religions for starters. We already have photos of the one Pope kissing the Qur’an. That can’t be right can it? Please just keep an eye on things because things seem to be lining up over therein the Middle East as our country falls into moral decay, spiritual apostasy and I also believe Islam is deep within our government. I could go on and on but things are not looking good right now.

            Please consider the idea you might have to leave the RCC behind at some point so you can cling to Christ and Him alone for salvation & forgiveness of sins.

            Here is something about a independent Church with no hierarchy sitting over them Churches should elect their own pastors support the missions of their choice. Have a look from pastor Jeff.

            BIBLICAL IN DOCTRINE

            BAPTIST BY DISTINCTIVE

            The Biblical Doctrine and Baptist Distinctive of the Local Church

            The Church is indigenous, a living body perpetuating itself by continuous evangelism within a given locale growing by the salvation of souls not by the baptism of infants. Its life is in the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, not in cutting edge methodology.

            The Church is autonomous, possessing the right and power of self-government, existing independently of outside controls

            The church is independent, existing apart from denominationalism. A denomination by definition has a hierarchal infrastructure and by practices believes its name merits heaven. The church is not denominational. The church is not non-denominational having no core doctrine. The church is not inter-denominational, having core doctrine, but laying it aside for unity’s sake. The church is not Protestant, a name that means just what it says: protestors. The church is not catholic, meaning universal, all-encompassing. The church is independent.

            The church is congregational ( not Congregationalist ), owning its own property, calling its own pastors, sending its own missionaries, paying its own bills, making its own decisions.

            The church is evangelistic and missionary, first concerned with salvation and Christian growth, then with social improvement.

            The church is separatist, maintaining separation from the world but never practicing infiltration or isolation. {Jeff Farnham}

          • Gallibus

            RE: ‘Luther did not get everything right and was just breaking free of Rome’.

            Reply: In so-doing, he broke away from Jesus’ church and brought in his own ‘corrections’ for which he had no mission or authority from Christ.
            And you are right, men have sought to ‘correct’ God from the earliest times – man has great difficulty in submitting to higher discipline and Wisdom – he wants to be in charge and ‘butt God with buts’ – but when you do that then you put yourself aside from God and revoke His guidance, putting on instead the yoke of confusion.

            So if the Church does not have a hierarchy how can it exercise its leadership and teaching role consistently? What business can succeed if everybody does their own thing without guidance and leadership? That would be chaos and lead to the certain death of the organization. Only satan has an interest in such lack of direction and leadership in Jesus’ Church.
            To leave the Catholic Church is to forsake Jesus – may the good Lord have mercy on me, guide me always and save me from such a terrible fate!
            I do not want to be independent of Jesus and His divine revelation and ministry as he Himself instituted; He gave no-one the mission or right to change His teachings or His Church. Independence from His Church is independence from Christ Himself.

          • Gallibus

            Re: ‘…. not by the baptism of infants.’

            Perhaps it is better not to baptize infants so that if they die suddenly or from sickness satan can have the satisfaction of them not being admitted to the kingdom of God? Really!

          • Instigator

            I pray that all seek the Savior with all their heart, mind and soul. To be brief, even the Bible can be an idol. All these worldly things take away from the simplicity of Christ. To love your neighbor as much as yourself and to love your enemies. This world is full of people who think they do God a favor by acting a certain way. Just as pride is a dangerous thing to those who come out of the world and flaunt it in the face of those who have yet to do so.
            But when self-professed “Christians,” a term that no longer holds any significant meaning in a culture that re-interprets reality and definitions into one of their own making, use pointed words to belittle others and appear superior others that goes against everything that I believe. God says that all have sinned, all fall short, all works are as filthy rags, and that we are to test all things. The religions of this world have shed so much blood in the name of their god. Things will be this way until the end. Why? Because they do not listen to God. The listen to their own depraved hearts. The hearts of mankind is wicked whether a priest or a pauper. Religiosity versus walking in the ways of God. It is all that simple. How a person can stand up and declare any organization to speak for God is beyond my ken. John the Baptist did not need a hierarchy to know his Lord and Savior. Peter was given faith by the Father. That is how all are given faith to believe. Not from a missionary but from God. There is no other way to obtain salvation but from the calling of the Holy Spirit sent by the Father to testify of His Son Jesus Christ as the Sole Mediator of men. A group of organized men have no role to play in that. What happened in that organization ten days ago or two thousand years ago is of inconsequence. It is the stance of a man or woman today before God, and God alone, that matters. I am not interested in reading any denominational religious material. I have read plenty. They are unnecessary for salvation. Typically they are the yokes of men placed on others. I prefer to be a bond-servant of Christ. That is all that matters. Like John the Baptist I live by faith in the Messiah and Savior for their is no other way to obtain grace.

          • Julie

            So do we live united in the Lord. it is by grace we are saved, repeated numerous times in the Catholic Catechism. God has a human face in Christ…and that is also why He did not pass out bibles, but chose 12 apostles to found His Church. It is th Holy Spirit through the transmission of the teaching mission of the church through apostolic succession that we come to the full knowledge of faith.

            So to avoid being misunderstanding of our faith tradition, it is good to see the sources Catholic actually do use and how we relate to them, rather than from anti-Catholic sources who refuse to do so.

            Essentially we consider protestants, including those who call us babylon, whore church, etc. our separated brethren and baptism, if you use the Trinitarian rite, you are using the Catholic rite

            People who are baptized with the Trinitarian rite are baptized into the Catholic Church irregardless of their impressions of it.

            On our Catholic Answers Forum, we find Protestants who stay on there, many of them come to see that what is propagated about Catholics are not true…as I am seeing on these sites.

            God bless.

          • Kat

            Julie, there were no Bibles to hand out! The Bible is a historical record of the past and a preview of the future. The information in the Bible is what God desires us to know. You need to do a Bible study so that you are able to rightly divide the scriptures. How can you call other Christians separated brethren? What separates us? Is it our unwillingness to put the church between us and our access to God and salvation? Is it our unwillingness to replace the Grace of God with Catholic legalism and works? The Bible tells us that, if we believe in the shed blood and resurrection of Christ and believe that He came to save us from our sins, then there is no separation! The Catholic church forgets that He came to fulfill the law. Yet by adding all their rules, regulations and rituals, the Catholic church adds to the scriptures and creates it’s own “law.”

          • Gallibus

            Yet the Lord should not speak in vain – thus we should listen to Him and obey His precepts. He gave us the means to obtain forgiveness and His enduring presence in the sacraments of His Church to whose leader He gave the keys of the Kingdom – the right and duty to admit or to refuse to admit, to forgive or not to forgive. So if one accepts God’s Word as recorded in the Bible, then one should cooperate with His plan of salvation and not seek to do it another way. Surely that is the clear path of righteousness.

          • Instigator

            I was speaking of Christ’s message whether it be His promise mentioned in the Old Testament or what He accomplished (past tense) in the New Testament. Listen to Him, yes, obey the laws, statutes and commandments out of obedience, yes, but no where is it mentioned to swear an oath to any religion. There is no Church. There is the kingdom of Heaven that all are called unto. Christ alone has the keys to the Kingdom. All must go through Him; through Christ does a sinner obtain salvation. Peter or the Church (capital C is found nowhere in Scripture) have nothing to do with any sinner’s salvation. There is no Peter at the pearly gates. A universal Church is completely unscriptural.

          • Gallibus

            You see – that is the typical mistake you make when you shut yourself off via sola scriptura – you paint yourself into a corner. Your clock stopped when the Bible was put together by the early Church.

          • Gallibus

            Re: ‘How a person can stand up and declare any organization to speak for God is beyond my ken.’
            Reply: Clearly you have not noticed the parts in the Bible, which you claim to go by, where Jesus gives the keys of the kingdom to Peter.
            Should that be interpreted to mean that after Peter’s death there would be no authority on earth with respect to the Kingdom of God? If so, why do you accept the Bible as written and put together by Peter’s followers and brother Apostles? If they had not authority to teach, why are you paying attention to them? Do you think that Jesus abandoned us after the deaths of the Apostles?
            How many chuches did Christ establish? Would it not be atypical of God, who is one, to establish many churches each with its own different interpretation of His Truth or, even worse, allow all to be free to interpret, pick and choose at will? Such an idea is ludicrous. All find discipline difficult and prefer their own interpretations.
            Discipline of Faith is the hallmark of the Catholic Church – you are free to accept or reject the Church – though many want to seem to accept in order to appear righteous in their own eyes and those of society in general while rejecting the Truths of doctrine taught by the Church. These are wolves in sheep’s clothing – the dupes of satan. This is the general apostasy of our day and was foretold in Scriptures as being a sign of the end of times.

            Re: ‘John the Baptist did not need a hierarchy to know his Lord and Savior.’
            Reply: John was a messenger, not the Saviour. He did not have a mandate from the Lord to institute the Lord’s saving works – that mission was Christ’s.

            Re: ‘Peter was given faith by the Father. That is how all are given faith to believe. Not from a missionary but from God.’

            Reply: We are all offered the gift of Faith by the Father; thereafter we need to co-operate with His Plan of salvation and not become ‘degenerate vines’. All the Apostles were missionaries; from whom else do we get the Truth of Christ?

          • Instigator

            Clearly it does not say that. Jesus has the keys. God gave Peter the faith to believe…. The were given a commission to take the gospel to the Israelites. Paul went to the lost sheep. You have no idea what the Bible is about. All you understand is the propaganda and lies spread by the RCC. Your understanding of God’s Word is ludicrous. There are not many “churches” there is only spiritual Israel. I am a member of the kingdom of God not some religious sect such as the RCC and its daughter churches. You are the one that picks and chooses just like those who see a rapture that precedes the second coming of the Savior. Discipline? What you are referring to is not discipline. It is how to be a good parrot.
            Your logic is odd. John the Baptist did not need a religious organization to have a relationship with God. Obviously you cannot stay on topic and as for Peter you are extremely confused. You really need to take it with God and stop relying on an organization. God wants you to worship Him and stop worshipping that thing you call Church. It is idolatry. Tell you what. Listen to the Hagmann program that featured Eric John Phelps. If you can stomach it. After you do, reply here and tell me of all the most important instances where he is wrong. If you cannot listen to it, open-mindedly, then we have no need to go further with this conversation.

          • Gallibus

            May the Lord enlighten you. I will pray for you. God bless.

      • Kat

        Gee, my Mormon and Jehovah Witness friends say the same things. Joesph Smith said that he heard directly from God, via Moroni, which is the same claim the Pope makes when he sits on St. Peter’s chair. Who is telling the truth? All cults teach that they have special revelation. Sorry but the Bible is the beginning and the end of everything. If the Bible doesn’t teach it, it isn’t so. I believe in the Holy Spirit and I believe He leads and directs us but He never sends us astray.

        • Gallibus

          Yes, satan never rests – that is why we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Whenever and where ever there is true prophesy there will always be a flood of false prophets – usually about 300 false to 1 true – like in the old days of Elijah. However, if someone comes teaching something contrary to what is taught in the Holy Scriptures then something is definitely wrong; God does not contradict Himself or correct His teaching to accommodate man’s desires. The Truth is the truth in spite of what Luther and all the other ‘correctionists’ thought and taught. We must pray for the gift of discernment – in Jesus’ name. God is the beginning and the end of everything – not the Bible which contains the essentials of God’s teaching but does not contain the entirety of God since as He has said: His mysteries are to remain mysteries and even Lazarus, after returning from the dead, was not permitted to reveal those mysteries that are hidden from us while on earth. God’s Word is alive and active – we have to respect God’s right to speak to and guide His children whenever He wishes – satan would definitely want you to deny Him that right and say ‘don’t listen!’ Same old satan, same old tricks and half-truths. Stay awake! The Holy Spirit does guide us and God still speaks to us – God even spoke to and gave visions to pagan kings in the past – Cyrus the Great, Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, etc. How did they know He was speaking to them if they did not listen? That is our problem – we block out the Holy Spirit and settle for satan’s half-truths.

  • Jared

    Romans 14:5 is speaking on fasting days, read the whole chapter and pray for the Lord to show you. Also go to mark 2:18 and Luke 18:12 for cross references!

  • Jesse

    Hi Julie, some of the posters here are converts from Catholicism to some form of Protestant assembly. I am not one of those (your comments on marriage are aimed at someone else) I suppose that since most Protestant groups have broken from the Catholic church then I am ‘sort of’ the object of your post to me. While I feel like it is my duty to point out my problems with Catholicism I try to never ever judge anyone who confesses their faith in Jesus of Nazareth for eternal life. Jesus is God and our only opportunity for life after death. I am not going to elaborate on my disagreements with your beliefs, but I have several that I would like for the individuals to justify with God’s word. It has never happened and is not likely to because the believers just say ‘there is nothing wrong with that’. (One answer to fit all )
    I can see why many think the pope is the false prophet and your church the “whore”, but it hasn’t happened yet and doesn’t matter to rapture believers anyway. (pre-tribbers I mean). Some of the pope’s statements and comments insinuate that he is in favor of organizing a one faith whole world church. (yes, I know that some of what has been said by LSM is false)

  • Jesse

    Second reply; I disagree that the Holy Spirit had disappeared for 1900 years, and would prefer to say the He has/had mostly been ignored or disbelieved during that time. The USA being a Christian nation it was/is the most likely place for the Holy Spirit to reestablish His presence as the ‘end time’ approached. For 1900 years what passed for the Christian Church fit in here. ( at least sort of )
    2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    • Julie

      That is your personal judgment.

      You made a most tragic denigration because of the innocent actions of the priest at your wedding.

      You have to know Who the Holy Spirit is and how He works. There are no gaps, no mistakes by God..it is people who fail not God.

      Anyway, I am closing out because the posters here have no knowledge of Church History but negative and profound condemning judgments on the Catholic/Orthodox faith with no foundation.

      I have prayed for you and others in this mindset and will continue to do so.

      God bless!

      • Jesse

        Our discussion dissolved into confusion and misunderstanding. There was no “priest” at my wedding in 1970. We hired a minister that is/was a friend of the family.
        The Holy Spirit was poured out on believers at Pentecost as told about in the book of Acts, and later people began to believe that when the 120 were all gone the power of the Holy Spirit died with them.
        That error was believed by many until recently (the turn of the 20tth century), I won’t go on because these truths are not universally believed, and we don’t want to argue, now do we?
        I suggest that you not waste God’s time praying for something you have assumed in error.

        • Julie

          I may have gotten you mixed up with someone who said the priest asked the couple to go before the side altars.

          I would not say the Holy Spirit has been ignored either. If you don’t know people that don’t go to the church you go to, you cannot assume what you said.

          The USA non-denominationals have lost so much roots of their universal faith. So it is very difficult to even set down a base of conversation and dialogue. Very difficult and I am quoting my pastor.

          there is just too much ill will towards Catholics and most who feel that way have been taught to think as such.

          We never discuss anything about any protestants in our churches as we focus more on the Lord, the Holy Trinity.

    • Julie

      Other fundamentalists tell me that there is no place in the Bible about America.

      Anyway I responded to your other comment this am.

    • Gallibus

      God loves all and is truly catholic/universal in His love. Are you?

      • Jesse

        For now I have to settle for ‘I try to be as good as God but fall way short’; Agape love is not a natural man emotion and not automatic in the ‘spirit man’

  • Disqus/Arque

    Don’t be fooled, this is the beginning of the one world religion.

    • Julie

      The Holy Father is simply establishing relationships.

      Likewise John Paul II warned of the anti gospel and the anti church and we were decimated from within by modernism. The Church is being purged and many are coming into the Church by the Holy Spirit.

      True faith is not based on compromise of the Revelation of Christ, the final revelation of Who God Is.

      • Instigator

        Oh, gag, spit, vomit. Such rubbish.

        • Julie

          Obviously you have no background of understanding.

          • Instigator

            Never will understand how so many WILLINGLY believe such lies other than that God said it would be this way.

          • Julie

            Actually a faith system that has consistently taught the same truths for 2000 years cannot be bad or else if it was as you name it, people would have left….the junk about the Nazis is just that…

            Do you know the history of the use of the cross, the crucifix…etc….no you don’t.

            You don’t want to believe in the truth but in bigotry.

          • Instigator

            More utter nonsense.

          • Gallibus

            Hope in God – then you will understand.

    • Mary Shinn

      No Disque, the Faith of Ephesians 4:5 is the one Faith established by Christ.
      Roman Catholicism. One Faith, one Church. Protestantism broke away.

      You can say One World Religion, RC isn’t it. You are confusing man’s NWO who Satan is behind.

      You already accept the authority of the Pope of the time (Pope Damasus), his God given authority to decide the New Testament Canon.

  • Instigator

    WHY CAN”T YOU JUST SAY YOU ARE CHRISTIAN RATHER THAN MAKING IT PERSONAL? I’m Catholic and thereby bring division by making it a pointed stick to jab others here with it but hey since I am Catholic and of the one and true religion well what the heck why shouldn’t I point that out and show these people the PRIDE I have being of the one true faith. Is that your take? Division is a great weapon in the hands of the RCC and you make a fine display of it. Be Catholic or suffer the consequences of not being one of us!

  • Instigator

    Your rants are very similar to that of the Church of Latter Day Saints. And just as lacking in credulity.

  • Julie

    Catholicism is not part of any one world religion…there is the World Council of Churches, of which the Church is not a member but works with them when the opportunity comes.

    As John Paul II stated, we are pilgrims on a journey to our final union with Christ, we are in the world but not of it. Catholicism is transcendent of the cultures we live in.

    You go to any Catholic Mass, you will see all kinds of people in common unity. You get to know them, there are as many opinions as people in there.

  • Instigator

    Roman Catholicism is not Christian. The term Christian has been bandied about to the point that it has no meaning and it has no basis in the Bible to be succinct. Roman Catholicism is based on Mithraism. It has a tragic and bloody history that constantly crucifies Jesus Christ. The one world religion will be led by the Vatican as it openly embraces all of the world’s religions and all the world leaders pay homage to it. The awakening the Catholics so loving espouse is the ecumenical movement to bring all religion into its fold to serve the lord of this world and the head of the Romish Church. It has always persecuted all who expose her for what she is and it is happening again. There is a reason that the RCC was not allowed in the original colonies founded here. Then came Maryland and a foothold was established. Look what has become of the U.S. since. Do not be fooled. The RCC is not a friend of the Kingdom of God and those who follow Christ will come out it.

    • Julie

      What do you know about Catholic beliefs? Nothing. So best you spend your time focused on God in what you can deal with instead of bearng false witness.

      You go to Europe and start saying the Nazis are off shoots of your other diatribe and they will think you are not operating with a full deck. They know about Naziism and who voted for it and what it truly was about.

      Roy Shoeman’s book, ‘Salvation is from the Jews’, gives the 6 constructs of Naziism…one of them being Aryanism.

      Went fed the Protestant movement of Germany and Great Britain was nationalism not just reaction against certain clerics….and remember, most people were illiterate and believed what they wanted to believe. Great Britain forced Catholics to renounce their faith and there were many who did not.

      • Instigator

        Who are you to tell me what I know or do not know? You are a mainstream clueless, unstudied RC. Stay within the confines of the RCC. That is your choice. You spout of meaningless banter. All of your knowledge comes from the house of Satan.

        • Instigator

          And I suppose you will deny the relationship between Nazi Germany and the Vatican? You really have not done your homework. How about you spend thirty years on this like I have before you state how incorrect I am. And if you say have, I did not say studying its mere religion. You have been programmed by it making you extremely biased and therefore defensive of it. It is an organization of men and nothing more as far as the physical aspect of the RCC goes. So keep taking jabs at me. I am not easily intimidated by shallow interpretations of history.

          • Julie

            I simply do not want to spend time drawing all sorts of sources and facts that you will categorically deny.

            The perception is that people of your orientation excuse yourselves from the commandment of not bearing false witness against your neighbor…calumny. Look it up in the dictionary…but so quick to condemn that outside your bias.

            You judge by appearances.

          • Instigator

            Oh bite me. Coward.

          • Julie

            That is a silly thing to say. Really.

          • Instigator

            Truth hurts. Those who abide in Christ do not fear reprisal from those who persecute them. Just tired of the need of Catholics to keep on throwing punches and the division they create.

    • Robert Bbb

      First, you dont understand catholic teachings and you only offer your misinformed understanding of catholicism. The One sacrifice of Jesus is present at Mass, you fail to understand many mysteries of God and fail to even pick up a catholic book and read facts.

      • Instigator

        Wow, how you Catholics love to pick fights. Your religion is crap. You believe a lie. Whatever. Bye.

        • Robert Bbb

          I didn’t call names as you did, then you say “catholics love to pick fights”. You have no idea that you sound unchristian, but as long as you have enough faith that attitude may be acceptable to you.

          • Instigator

            Ouch. That hurts. Whatever

          • Julie

            I blame it on their teachers who deliberately indoctrinate them and cause them to close up to others who do not approach Christianity as they do.

            Christianity is not about being self-righteous…because then you are really placing your salvation on your way of looking at things instead of the Living Lord.

          • Instigator

            I blame it on those who try to force their beliefs on others. Having a cerebral conversation about the teachings of Christ is not enough; they feel compelled to go further and tell everyone outside of their belief system the error of their ways and how they need to come join the one and only true Church never being able to leave it alone and stick with the simplicity of His Gospel. Speaking of indoctrination that is exactly what the RCC does to many right from birth.

    • Guest

      Exactly. This evangelical compromise is laying the ground work for the coming Antichrist who will rule the entire world for 7 years.

      • Julie

        Well then the AntiChrist appeared right after Christ’s resurrection then. You don’t know how people practiced the faith immediately after Christ.

        Christ will never come back to this earth to live among us because then there would be no faith or hope…nor are people converted in Christ’s charity for their neighbor either.

        The same faith has been practiced for 2000 years as we practice it today.

      • Julie

        Baloney.

        Where in Scripture does it point to the Roman Catholic Church, which is universal on the 7 hills of R ome….there is no naming of it. And the Vatican is across the river and looks at the 7 hills.

        The reference is to those who live by the flesh.

        To add words to Scripture is anathema. To remove the books of Scripture as Luther did is likewise a form of apostasy. Look at the 34,000 sects here in America…where is Christ’s unity in that???

        • Instigator

          There are only two religions that fit this. One is Talmudic Israel and the other is the Babylonian/Mithraic Roman Catholic Church and her daughters (Protestant Churches). Boy are you anti-protestant. Ouch.

          • H2o2Bill

            (Rev 17:9-10) “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are
            seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five
            have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he
            must remain a little while.

            Can you list the seven for us and keep in mind the eighth is one of the seven.

          • Instigator

            The five historical Empires documented in Scripture, each have the same common denominator – an intense interaction with Israel. They are the Egyptian, Assyrian, Neo-Babylonian, Persian Union, and Grecian Empires. The Roman Empire was in full control of world affairs at the time of Jesus and the writing of the New Testament, so it represented the 6th king – the one that “is” in the prophetic text.

            After the Roman Empire disintegrated, the temporal power associated with the Caesars shifted to an ecclesiastical power base in the form of the Popes, and the hierarchical structure of the Roman Catholic Church. When Revelation 17 says “five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come,” it segregates the first six kings from the seventh. This is a hint that there could be a gap between the first six kings and the incarnation of the seventh king – or seventh Empire.

            The seventh King/Empire is associated with the national security state phase of America, for it is to continue for only a short time. In terms of sheer longevity, the ancient nations represented in the first six dominions are extremely old.

            Egypt has been around from almost the very beginning. While the Assyrian kingdom is gone, the people survive in the the nations of Syria, Iraq, and Iran. The Medes of the Persian Union have been traced to the Turkish Kurds, and the Persians are widely known to be Iran. Obviously, Greece is still a nation as is Italy, so all of these people go back thousands of years. The same cannot be said for America.

            America as the seventh king/empire that “must continue a short space.” Furthermore, as what is commonly called the sole remaining world superpower, America currently dominates world affairs in an unprecedented political, economic, and cultural sense.

            “The beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth…” describes the final world Empire that will host the power of antichrist. As we have identified America as the seventh king, the eighth must follow America and be truly global in reach – even surpassing the power of the United States of America. While the blind guides continue to crow about the fictional “Revived Roman Empire,” the conclusion that the United Nations fulfills the role of the eighth, and final Empire is inescapable for those with ears to hear.

            Even though the prophecy speaks of an eighth king, there are actually only seven. The text does say “…there are seven kings.” 7. Indeed, when the same verse says that “five have fallen and one is,” it states that the OTHER is not yet come. It did not say the others have not yet come. If there were two kings after the first six, the text should have used a plural term because the seventh and eighth kings would total two more. Instead, after the first six kingdoms are referred to, it says “the other is not yet come.”

            It is clear that the eighth Empire must be associated with the previous seven for the prophecy states that the eighth king “is of the seven.” Because America is the seventh Empire, if the eighth encompasses all of the previous seven, we have a solid description of a multi-national political entity in this verse. The United Nations counts among its members every single one of the previously mentioned seven nation states and peoples. Egypt is a member of the UN. Syria is a member, and so is Iraq. Persia, Greece, and Italy are members. Obviously, America is at the very center of power of the UN.

            The implication that the eighth Empire is not actually a distinct separate nation like the previous seven is also hinted at. Remember, the United Nations has no sovereign homeland or nation other than its member states. The prophecy clearly and succinctly indicates that the eighth king is actually composed “of the seven.”

            You cannot have an eighth beast without the seventh.The UN will be destroyed based upon the deadly wound that is scheduled to “wound” the “head” of the beast, and since we know the actual “beast” is the government, the “head” that is to be destroyed is New York. Thus, after the devastating strike on America the UN will be re-established in Jerusalem.

            There are three major centers to the NWO. City of London is the financial head, Washington D.C. is the political head, and Vatican City and the Holy See is the religious head.

            Now…..The mother of harlots is….

            Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

            Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

            Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

            Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

            Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

            Jerusalem is God’s own people to this very day, who reign over the kings within and without. But as with all harlots, her lovers have no respect or true love for her, and will, in time turn on her.

            It is God’s own people who kill those He sends to them. “It cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem”.

            To let us know that this is the same today in the Christian church, it is revealed to us that it was “the Jews who believed on Christ” who wanted him killed. It was not the Romans as we so often hear.

            Stand with Christ, stand fast in His doctrine, and you and I will to this very day, be hated of “those… who believe in Him”, who are “Abraham’s seed”, and yet our Lord can say of them “If ye were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham.” Like “the scarlet colored beast”, those who claim the name of Christian, are at the same time Abraham’s seed and yet are not Abraham’s seed. They believe in Christ, and at the same time want Him dead. It is all a mystery which the scarlet colored beast cannot understand “because [ for a Christian who cannot hear Christ's Word, our Lord can truly say] My Word has no place in you”. Speaking to these same believing Jews, Christ tells them:

            What this combination of a beast and a harlot tells us is that when we speak of the great harlot, we are also speaking of “the beast that carries her.” “I will show you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her.” What this unholy alliance of the beast and this harlot tells us is that this mystery is the account of our own relationship as the unfaithful wife of our own husband and Savior, Christ Jesus. What we are being told is that we are both the great harlot who is riding the scarlet colored beast, as well as being the scarlet colored beast upon which this great harlot rides. The fact this great harlot is sitting upon us, tells us that she rules over our physical bodies which are filled with the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. Her function as a harlot is to make us feel good while we are dishonoring and disobeying our husband. To do this we must be made to be feel rich and increased with spiritual riches, while in reality we are playing the harlot and are “poor and blind and naked.”

            We must come to understand the principle that “the [ vision] is one,” and that both this harlot and this beast are who we are at our own appointed time, and God is showing us that all of this is merely a part of His “great and marvelous” works within our lives, which will prepare us to enter into the temple.

            Gal 2:20 and Rev 17:8 are opposite sides of the same coin, which is the coin of our lives. Gal 2:20 is that side which reflects the ultimate death of our first Adamic beast, while Rev 17:8 is that part of our lives which reflects the healing of our deadly wound as “carnal… babes in Christ,” before we are truly “crucified with Christ”. We have already covered this part of our walk in the revelation of Jesus Christ within us, in our study of the deadly wound of the beast we all are, as it is revealed to us in Rev 13.

            “Five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space,” is just another way of telling us where we are in our spiritual development when we look behind us to see this revelation. Until we begin to see these spiritual truths, we are hopelessly lost in the darkness of our own ignorance. We are a beast who is ruled by a harlot, and we aren’t even aware of our own spiritual darkness. But when that darkness is finally shattered by “the brightness of His coming,” then that which restrains and withheld is removed and destroyed. Here is Rev 17:19 in the book of 2nd Thessalonians.

          • H2o2Bill

            I see you provide no Scripture when naming the United States the one comes out of the others.

            And I see you grab a hold of the word harlot to try and identify Israel. The word is not used the same way you should now this.

          • Instigator

            If that made no sense to you then I am speechless.

          • Instigator

            http:// soundoctrine. org/2014/07/13/the-diverse-4th-beast-dreadful-and-terrible/

            Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

            It is always so amazing to me when people warn of a “coming” tribulation. This is a really good video on the conquest for global domination we’ve seen in our lifetime, now in it’s final phase.

            This video is excellent but misses the religious influence. We have to realize the underlying power at work here. There is the eluding to the “coming” antichrist at the end of this video, we know the power of antichrist already works.
            The illusion of freedom that has been instilled in the minds of the masses has them anesthetized on entitlement and pleasure, while the powers that be, continue their quest for complete control. The control has been accomplished most significantly by the control “Christianity”.

            American flags on the pulpits of the modern Christian church, only those accounted worthy by the Lord escape the deception, so great if possible it would deceive the very elect. Abide in Christ, enter into thy chamber, enter into the bond of the covenant, believe the truth and be sanctified.
            The diverse 4th beast and it’s system of usury is destroyed, come out of her my people.

            Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

            Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

            Eze 22:12 In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbors by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord GOD.

            Eze 22:13 Behold, therefore I have smitten mine hand at thy dishonest gain which thou hast made, and at thy blood which hath been in the midst of thee.

            Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself (in Christ, the truth) as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

          • H2o2Bill

            Here let’s make it simple,

            (Isa 21:1-9) The burden against the Wilderness of the Sea. As whirlwinds in the South pass through, So it comes from the desert, from a terrible land. A distressing vision is declared to me; The treacherous dealer deals treacherously, And the plunderer plunders. Go up, O Elam! Besiege, O Media! All its sighing I have made to cease. Therefore my loins are filled with pain; Pangs have taken hold of me, like the pangs of a woman in labor. I was distressed when I heard it; I was dismayed when I saw it. My heart wavered, fearfulness frightened me; The night for which I longed He turned into fear for me. Prepare the table, Set a watchman in the tower, Eat and drink. Arise, you princes, Anoint the shield! For thus has the Lord said to me: “Go, set a watchman, Let him declare what he sees.” And he saw a chariot with a pair of horsemen, A chariot of donkeys, and a chariot of camels, And he listened earnestly with great care. Then he cried, “A lion, my Lord! I stand continually on the watchtower in the daytime; I have sat at my post every night. And look, here comes a chariot of men with a pair of horsemen!” Then he answered and said, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen! And all the carved images of her gods He has broken to the ground.”

            Sorry that is not the United States, the US is guilty of much but is not the harlot nor the beast. the places named are not in the US.

            (Isa 21:11-13) The burden against Dumah. He calls to me out of Seir, “Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night?” The watchman said, “The morning comes, and also the night. If you will inquire, inquire; Return! Come back!” The burden against Arabia. In the forest in Arabia you will lodge, O you traveling companies of Dedanites.

            You use Scripture in a lose fashion using conjecture to try and fit the US into your theory.

            We are free to preach the gospel message how much more free can you be? Yes our freedoms are escaping us but it certainly is not the picture you paint.

          • H2o2Bill

            http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/biobrainerd2.html

            Brainerd learned the transforming power of prayer: “My heart waswholly set on God.”

            July 21, 1744, on hearing that the Indians were planning to hold an idolatrous feast and dance the next day, he spent a day and night in prayer. He writes: “This morning about nine I withdrew to the woods for prayer. I was in such anguish that when I rose from my knees I felt extremely weak and overcome, and the sweat ran down my face and body … I cared not where or how I lived, or what hardships I went through, so that I could but gain souls for Christ.
            I continued in this frame all the evening and night.”

            Thus empowered, he went forth to meet the Indians the next morning, convinced that God was with him in this contest just as He was with Elijah on Mount Carmel; and, wonder of wonders, instead of promptly scalping him when he called upon them to stop their dance, they actually desisted and listened to the missionary preach, both morning and afternoon. Made strong by prayer and the awareness of the divine companionship, Brainerd
            dragged his tortured body through the forests from village to village, preaching with such tenderness and conviction that the stony-hearted Indians were frequently
            melted to tears.

            That does not describe me (it should) how about you?

        • sahana64

          In the book of Revelation chapter 17. Only the Vatican fits the description/location of the woman on 7 moutains (MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH).
          Revelation 17:9
          And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

          • H2o2Bill

            Actually Rome does not fit for a number of reasons. Can you show us a verse where Rome is named for destruction?

            (Rev 17:9-10) “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.

            Mountains = Kingdoms? Kings rule kingdoms.

            Rev 17:11 “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

            That would be the Ottoman Turkish Empire = Islam The Ottoman Empire was one of the seven and is fast coming back to life.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F47uAKG-k-s

          • sahana64

            A City on Seven Hills
            (only the Vatican–Rome– fits this description)
            - Dave Hunt:
            A woman rides the beast, and that woman is a city built on seven hills that reigns over the kings of the earth! Was ever in all of history such a statement made?
            John immediately equates the readers’ acceptance of this revelation with “wisdom.” We dare not pass over such a disclosure casually. It merits our careful and
            prayerful attention.

            Here is no mystical or allegorical language but an
            unambiguous statement in plain words: “The woman … is that great city.” There is no justification for seeking some other hidden meaning. Yet books have been written and sermons preached insisting that “Mystery Babylon” is the
            United States. That is clearly not the case, for the United States is a country, not a city. One might justifiably refer to the United States as Sodom, considering the honor now given to homosexuals, but it is definitely not the
            Babylon that John sees in this vision. The woman is a city.

            Furthermore, she is a city built on seven hills. That specification eliminates ancient Babylon. Only one city has for more than 2000 years been known as the city on seven hills. That city is Rome. The Catholic Encyclopedia
            states: “It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined.”1

            There are, of course, other cities, such as Rio de Janeiro, that were also built on seven hills. Therefore, John provides at least seven more characteristics to limit the identification to Rome alone. We will examine each one in detail in subsequent chapters. However, as a preview of where we are going, we will list them now and discuss each one briefly. As we shall see, there is only one city on the earth which, in both historical and contemporary
            perspectives, passes every test John gives, including its identification as Mystery Babylon. That city is Rome, and more specifically, Vatican City.

            Even Catholic apologist Karl Keating admits that Rome has long been known as Babylon. Keating claims that Peter’s statement “The church here in Babylon … sends you her greeting” (from I Peter 5:13) proves that Peter was writing from Rome. He explains further:

            “Babylon is a code word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible [four of the six are in chapters 17 and 18 and in extrabiblical works such as Sibylling Oracles (5, 159f.), the Apocalypse of
            Baruch (ii, 1), and 4 Esdras (3:1).

            Eusebius Pamphilius, writing about 303, noted that "it is said that Peter's first epistle... was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon."2

            As for "Mystery," that name imprinted on the woman's forehead is the perfect designation for Vatican City. Mystery is at the very heart of Roman Catholicism,
            from the words "Mysterium fide" pronounced at the alleged transformation of the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ to the enigmatic
            apparitions of Mary around the world. Every sacrament, from baptism to extreme unction, manifests the mysterious power which the faithful must believe the
            priests wield, but for which there is no visible evidence. Rome's new Catechism explains that liturgy "aims to initiate souls into the mystery of Christ (It is 'mystagogy.')" and that all of the Church's liturgy is "mystery."3

            Who Is the Whore?

            The first thing we are told about the woman is that she is a "whore" (Revelation 17:1), that earthly kings "have committed fornication" with her (verse 2), and
            that "all the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (verse 3). Why would a city be called a whore and be accused of
            having committed fornication with kings? Such an indictment would never be made of London or Moscow or Paris—or any other ordinary city. It wouldn't make sense.

            Fornication and adultery are used in the Bible in both the physical and the spiritual sense. Of Jerusalem God said, "How is the faithful city become
            a harlot!" (Isaiah 1:21). Israel, whom God had set apart from all other peoples to be holy for His purposes, had entered into unholy, adulterous alliances with
            the idol-worshiping nations about her. She had "committed adultery with stones and with stocks [idols]” (Jeremiah 3:9); “and with their idols have they committed
            adultery” (Ezekiel 23:37). The entire chapter of Ezekiel 16 explains lsrael’s spiritual adultery in detail, both with heathen nations and with their false gods, as do many other passages.

            There is no way that a city could engage in literal, fleshly fornication. Thus we can only conclude that John, like the prophets in the Old Testament, is using the term in its spiritual sense. The city, therefore, must claim a spiritual
            relationship with God. Otherwise such an allegation would be meaningless.

            Though it is built on seven hills, there would be no reason to accuse Rio de Janeiro of spiritual fornication. It makes no claim of having a special relationship with God. And though Jerusalem has that relationship, it cannot
            be the woman riding on the beast, for it is not built on seven hills. Nor does it meet the other criteria by which this woman is to be identified.

            Against only one other city in history could a charge of fornication be leveled. That city is Rome, and more specifically Vatican City. She claims to have been the worldwide headquarters of Christianity since its beginning and maintains that claim to this day. Her pope enthroned in Rome claims to be the exclusive representative of God, the vicar of Christ. Rome is the headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church, and in that too she is unique.

            Numerous churches, of course, are headquartered in cities, but only one city is the headquarters of a church. The Mormon Church, for example, is headquartered in
            Salt Lake City, but there is much more to Salt Lake City than the Mormon Church. Not so with Vatican City. It is the heartbeat of the Roman Catholic Church and nothing else. She is a spiritual entity that could very well be accused of spiritual fornication if she did not remain true to Christ.

            In Bed with the Rulers
            Not only does Rome’s pope call himself the vicar of Christ, but the Church he heads claims to be the one true Church and the bride of Christ. Christ’s bride, whose
            hope is to join her Bridegroom in heaven, is to have no earthly ambitions. Yet the Vatican is obsessed with earthly enterprise, as history proves; and in furtherance
            of these goals it has been, exactly as John foresaw in his vision, engaged in adulterous relationships with the kings of the earth. That fact is acknowledged even by Catholic historians.

            Christ said to His disciples, “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world,
            therefore the world hateth you” (John 15:19). The Catholic Church, however, is very much of this world. Her popes have built an unrivaled worldwide empire of
            property, wealth, and influence. Nor is empire-building an abandoned feature of the past. We have already seen that Vatican II clearly states that the Roman
            Catholic Church today still ceaselessly seeks to bring under its control all mankind and all their goods.

            Popes have long claimed dominion over the world and its peoples. Pope Gregory XIs papal bull of 1372 (In Coena Domini) claimed papal dominion over the entire Christian world, secular and religious, and excommunicated all who
            failed to obey the popes and to pay them taxes. In Coena was confirmed by subsequent popes and in 1568 Pope Pius V swore that it was to remain an eternal law.

            Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503) claimed that all undiscovered lands belonged to the Roman Pontiff, for him to dispose of as he pleased in the name of Christ as
            His vicar. King John II of Portugal was convinced that in his Bull Romanus Pontifex the pope had granted all that Columbus discovered exclusively to him and his country. Ferdinand and Isabel of Spain, however, thought the pope had given the same lands to them. In May 1493 the Spanish-born Alexander VI issued three bulls to settle the dispute.

            In the name of Christ, who had no place on this earth that He called his own, this incredibly evil Borgia pope, claiming to own the world, drew a north-south
            line down the global map of that day, giving everything on the east to Portugal and on the west to Spain. Thus by papal grant, “out of the plenitude of apostolic power,” Africa went to Portugal and the Americas to Spain. When
            Portugal “succeeded in reaching India and Malaya, they secured the confirmation of these discoveries from the Papacy…” There was a condition, of course:
            “to the intent to bring the inhabitants … to profess the Catholic Faith.”4
            It Was largely Central and South America which, as a consequence of this unholy alliance between church and state, had Roman Catholicism forced upon them by the
            sword and remain Catholic to this day. North America (with the exception of Quebec and Louisiana) was spared the dominance of Roman Catholicism because it
            was settled largely by Protestants.

            Nor have the descendants of Aztecs, Incas, and Mayas forgotten that Roman Catholic priests, backed by the secular sword, gave their ancestors the choice of
            conversion (which often meant slavery) or death. They made such an outcry when John Paul II in a recent visit to Latin America proposed elevating Junipero Serra (a major eighteenth-century enforcer of Catholicism among the Indians) to sainthood that the pope was forced to hold the ceremony in secret.

            Christ said, “My kingdom is not of this world; otherwise my servants would fight.” The popes, however, have fought with armies and navies in the name of Christ to build a huge kingdom which is very much of this world. And to amass their earthly empire they have repeatedly engaged in spiritual fornication with emperors, kings, and princes. Claiming to be the bride of Christ, the Roman
            Catholic Church has been in bed with godless rulers down through history, and these adulterous relationships continue to this day. This spiritual fornication will be documented in detail later.

            Rome Equals Vatican
            Some may object that it is Rome, and not that small part of it known asVatican City, which is built on seven hills, and that the Vatican can hardly be called a “great city.” Though both objections are true, the words “Vatican” and
            “Rome” are universally used interchangeably. Just as one would refer to Washington and mean the government that runs the United States, so one refers to Rome and means the hierarchy that rules the Roman Catholic Church.

            Take for example a placard carried by a demonstrator outside the November 15-18, 1993, meeting in Washington D.C. of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. Protesting any deviation from the pope’s wishes, it read: “ROME’S WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.”5 0bviously by “Rome” it meant the Vatican. Such is the common
            usage, So closely are Catholicism and Rome linked that the Catholic Church is known as the Roman Catholic Church, or simply the Roman Church.

            Moreover, for more than a thousand years the Roman Catholic Church exercised both religious and civil control over the entire city of Rome and its surroundings. Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) abolished the secular Roman
            Senate and placed the administration of Rome directly under his command. The Roman Senate that had governed the city under the Caesars had been known as the Curia Romana (Roman Curia). That name, according to the Pocket Catholic Dictionary, is now the designation of “the whole ensemble of administrative and judicial offices through which the Pope directs the operations of the Catholic Church.6

            The popes’ authority even extended to large territories outside Rome acquired in the eighth century. At that time, with the help of a deliberately fraudulent
            document manufactured for the popes known as The Donation of Constantine, Pope Stephen III convinced Pepin, king of the Franks and father of Charlemagne,
            that territories recently taken by the Lombards from the Byzantines actually had been given to the papacy by the Emperor Constantine. Pepin routed the Lombards
            and handed to the pope the keys to some 20 cities (Ravenna, Ancona, Bologna, Ferrara, lesi, Gubbio, etc.) and the huge chunk of land joining them along
            the Adriatic coast.

            Dated 30 March 315, The Donation declared that Constantine had given these lands, along with Rome and the Lateran Palace, to the popes in perpetuity. In
            1440 this document was proven to be a forgery by Lorenzo Valla, a papal aide, and is so recognized by historians today. Yet allegedly infallible popes continued
            for centuries to assert that The Donation was genuine and on that basis to justify their pomp, power, and possessions. That fraud is still perpetuated by an
            inscription in the baptistry of Rome’s St. John Lateran, which has never been corrected.

            Thus the Papal States were literally stolen by the popes from their rightful owners. The papacy controlled and taxed these territories and derived great wealth from them until 1848. At that time the pope, along with the rulers of most of the other divided territories of Italy, was forced to grant his rebellious subjects a constitution. In September 1860, over his raging protests, Pius
            IX lost all of the papal states to the new, finally united Kingdom of Italy, which left him, at the time of the First Vatican Council in 1870, still in control of Rome and its surroundings.

            The point is that, exactly as John foresaw in his vision, a spiritual entity that claimed a special relationship with Christ and with God became identified with a city that was built on seven hills. That “woman” committed spiritual
            fornication with earthly rulers and eventually reigned over them. The Roman Catholic Church has been continuously identified with that city. As “The most
            definitive Catholic encyclopedia since Vatican II” declares:
            …hence, one understands the central place of Rome in the life of the Church today and the significance of the title, Roman Catholic Church, the Church that
            is universal, yet focused upon the ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Since the founding of the Church there by St. Peter, Rome has been the center of all Christendom.7

          • H2o2Bill

            You seem not to be able to address what I wrote to you. For your information Mecca sits on seven hills also.

            I also said nothing about the United States being the harlot or Mystery Babylon I refute such things. Nor am I a Catholic.

            Walid spoke at a prophecy conference that had many big names in the world of Bible prophecy none of them could answer his questions. There is a short video with Walid and Dave Hunt talking together Dave remarks “you make some good points brother”

            Show us a verse in the Bible where Rome is named in destruction?

            Mat 24:26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

            Is Rome in a desert?

            Rev 2:13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

            That is not in Rome that is in Turkey.

            Just who destroyed the Church in Smyrna? It was the Ottoman Turks.

            Show us one nation that is named for destruction in the Bible that is not a Islamic nation?

            Isa 19:1 The burden against Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.

            Again that is not Rome, I like Dave Hunt he did many good things wrote many good books. But his work on Bible prophecy is full of conjecture. Look at the EU they have grown past ten nations have they not?

            Look what is happening right before your eyes in the Middle East.

            Yes the Vatican will play a role in End Times yet if you don’t see Islam in End Times then you are not on the right track. Look at the Old Testament as well as the New.

            (1Jn 2:22-23) Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

            Islam says God has no Son Islam is antichrist.

            Isa_14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in My land, And on My mountains tread him underfoot. Then his yoke shall be removed from them, And his burden removed from their shoulders.

            Is it a Assyrian that sits in Rome?

            Who is this who comes from Edom, With
            garments of glowing colors from Bozrah, This One who is majestic in His apparel, Marching in the greatness of His strength? “It is I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save.” Why is Your apparel red, And Your garments like the one who treads in the wine press?(Isa 63:1-2) (Rev 19:13-15) He is clothed witha robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

            Edom is not Rome it’s Saudi Arabia and Some of Jordon as well.

            Isa 34:5 “For My sword shall be bathed in heaven; Indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment.

            Isa 34:9 Its streams shall be turned into pitch, And its dust into brimstone; Its land shall become burning pitch.

            Is there oil in Rome to burn?

            Isa 21:1 The burden against the Wilderness of the Sea. As whirlwinds in the South pass through, So it comes from the desert, from a terrible land.

            Again Rome does not fit.

            Here let’s stay in the same chapter,

            Isa 21:9 And look, here comes a chariot of men with a pair of horsemen!” Then he answered and said, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen! And all the carved images of her gods He has broken to the ground.”

            How much more do I need to write?

            Islam is on the march can’t people see this. Look at Israel they are surrounded by Islamic countries do you think that happened by accident?
            Islam is antichrist. ((1st John 2:22))
            Islam want’s to destroy Israel. ((Psalm 83))
            Islam is a religion of peace? ((Daniel))
            Islam has no respect of women. ((Daniel))
            Islam denies that God has a Son or the Son of God. ((1st
            John))
            Islam wants to divide the land they want Jerusalem as their own. ((Daniel))
            Islam wants to change the laws & Islam has already had laws changed (Sharia). ((Daniel))
            Islam want’s to change times look at New York
            what does the Mayor want to celebrate now? ((Daniel))
            Islam wants to rule the world. ((Revelation))

            1. Egypt
            2.Assyria
            3.Babylon
            4.Media Persia
            5.Grecian
            6.Roman
            7.Ottoman, Islamic

            Yes you see Roman on the list but few know about the Eastern part of the Roman empire it’s one of the same as the rest that are on the list.

            The book of Revelation is written in the language of the Old Testament. Some Jews translated the book of Revelation into Hebrew then cross-referenced it with the Old Testament what they learned all of Revelation is found in the Old Testament except the names of the Churches. If your going to study the book of Revelation you have to go to the Old Testament and more than just the book of Daniel. You have to get the meaning of the symbolism used you have to get it right or you get it wrong.

            Dan_2:35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

            Is not Christ the stone does not His Kingdom fill the whole Earth in the future? Is not that Kingdom described here in Daniel as a great mountain?

            You seem honest enough but convinced of these new ideas concerning Rome being the harlot before that the common belief of many was that is Islam. Also keep in mind the Roman empire had a Eastern flavor as well. Don’t get me wrong it is obvious Rome will play a part but if your going to exclude Islam then you have to ignore much of the Bible. Would you please consider taking some time and hearing this man out concerning End Times. And no I don’t agree with what he is teaching today concerning other things other than End Times.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHbH5lJTxKU&list=TLpxo-4-6SC08

    • Jesse

      In spite of the heavy protests, I’m afraid you are right, but I have concerns that its seems too early- maybe.

    • Gallibus

      To say Christian has no meaning is to say that Christ has no meaning. A great proportion of the world’s population has not come to grips with the meaning of Christ – we are living in the midst of increasing apostasy, atheism, paganism and satanism. Some states even go to the ridiculous length of calling satanism a religion – it is not – it is an anti-religion.

  • Instigator

    I do not attend a church. How can I believe in a cult? In what way is God religious? Mistreatment? To love your neighbor as yourself? To pray for my enemies? So you are saying to spare the rod and spoil the child? Look around that is what people here have done. God says to let the wheat grow up with the tares. And that is the way of things. I bash Catholics because of my religion? That’s a stretch. I have nothing against Catholics. I have much against the apostasy of the RCC. If that hurts then they should go fellowship with those they are more comfortable with. But if one is truly seeking the Lord they understand the trials that must be endured in this life. What did Jesus say to the priests of His day?

    • Mary Shinn

      Instigator,

      Go to the nearest Catholic Church. Go kneel or sit in front of the Tabernacle. You will see it, there is a lit vigil candle next to the Tabernacle Most Catholic Churches, the Tabernacle is from and center on or directly behind the altar. Jesus is there.

      Pray, speak to Him in prayer. Our Lord will give you the grace to believe. If the church is locked, usually is in these times. During the day, ask at the Parish Office. They will open the
      Church for you. You could go before or directly after Mass.

      Attend Mass but do not go forward to receive. I predict, one day you will be able to receive for you will say “yes” to becoming Catholic when God shows everyone on the earth.
      The “awakening” is soon says Heaven.

      • Kat

        Why can’t I go forward to receive without being a Catholic? If the Catholic Church is a Christian church and we all believe in the death burial and resurrection of Christ, then we are all believers, united by our faith. Why does the Catholic church claim to be the only one true church? Christianity is not a denomination and it certainly isn’t owned by the Catholic church. The church refused to marry my husband and I because I wouldn’t convert to the Catholic faith. I was a believer but I had to be a Catholic to receive the church’s blessing. My husbands sibling were both married in the church and both are now divorced, one of the twice. My husband and I were married in a Christian church and our marriage has lasted for over 40 years. One of my husbands siblings marriage was recently annulled by the Catholic church, after 25 years of marriage. I say in God’s eyes, once you are married, you are married. If you divorce, it is a sin but under God’s grace, you are forgiven. According to the Catholic church you need their approval to be forgiven. The Catholic church has a whole set of different rules which aren’t based on God’s Word.

        • Julie

          There is truth in all Christian Churches, but not the fullness. Do they have Christ dictated liturgy? Do they have a consecrated hierarchy and priesthood? Do they have the catechism that defines Jesus vs some others’ opinions? Do they have a set creed where all can profess as one body?

          Jesus is truly calling us to communion.

          Our first work as a Catholic is to enter into the Holy Trinity and as Church to be the place for reconciliation of sinners to Christ, as well as to make present today the same power and presence of Christ at His death and Resurrection. Finally the Church is to serve those in need irregardless of who they are and what they have.

          If you feel uncomfortable and adamant about the Church, of course they are not going to force you to marry in the Church. In the Church it is the couple who marry each other and the priest acts as witness. With your convictions the priest simply could not witness your union, and acted in good faith.

          The number of annulments in America are the highest anywhere. I do not know your Catholic relatives. The ones in my mixed family background, it is the Catholics who stay married, the Protestants have divorce.

          So I can see that you have had a very negative opinion of the Church and am sorry for that.

          • Julie

            And to be forgiven, one must be truly sorry for one’s sins.
            You go to Mass and at the beginning is the confiteor where ordinary sins are forgiven before receiving the Eucharist.

            If one commits a grave sin, one must go to confession to resume reception of the Eucharist.

            As ours is a sacramental worship, it is a different ball game entirely than a Bible based fellowship Sunday gathering.

            Extremely different, Sunday obligations. Extremely different and people need to study what the Mass is and does.

          • Instigator

            No Mass is ever necessary; no rosary is ever necessary; no priestly confession is ever necessary; no Eucharist is necessary; the Sabbath is not Sunday. None of that was taught by Christ or OT prophets.

          • Gallibus

            If you believe that Christ did it all for you and that is the end of the story and you can sit back without participating in your sanctification process, then you will believe that nothing further is necessary – as you say. The fact that Christ nevertheless instituted the Eucharist puts your hypothesis where it belongs – in the trash heap.

          • Instigator

            What about all the Catholics I know that go whoring and fornicating? You have a very naïve perspective. You are a hater of those outside of your faith.

        • Shosh 7154

          This same catholic church killed many Jews during the inquisition and crusades in the name of the King of the Jews. If you renounce mary as a non-virgin, a sinner saved by the Son of G-d, and buried in the ground, you stand with those who were tortured to death. This catholic church is not from Jerusalem, it is from Babylon where the worship of mother/son gods originated. This same catholic church will devour those who reject mary worship and truly believe they are serving the G-d of Israel as they kill His own family members. Catholicism IS in the Word of G-d… teaching doctrines of demons …
          1 Timothy 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
          1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

        • Gallibus

          How can Catholics allow people who believe that they are simply receiving bread and wine to receive God Himself in the Blessed Eucharist? That is sacrilege!

      • Instigator

        Rather see it fall to the ground than step foot in it.

  • Jesse

    Stick with my last post…

  • Julie

    I came to this thread from another site and did not realize it was from a partisan perspective in a non-denominational source. Normally I don’t enter such threads as the put downs and misconceptions on the Church are so out of touch with what we actually believe.

    For those who have conscience to seek the truth in God and in neighbor, I strongly recommend people get a copy of the universal Catholic Catechism to see what we truly believe, and the footnotes and references that go back 2000 years.

    God bless people here and know we pray for all Christians.

    • Chris

      you would do better to read the word of God from Genesis to revelation all answer to your ?s are there

      • Gallibus

        Not really, because some prophesies have not yet been fulfilled and until they are we will not understand fully how God is working in the world. In fact, the prophecies often raise more questions.

  • Chiedu7

    FREEMASON’S AT WORK!

    THE ANTI-CHRISTS ONE WORLD CHURCH COMING INTO EXISTENCE

    • Robert Bbb

      Anti-christ wouldn’t even allow the holy sacrifice(Catholic Mass) and will ban it as mentioned in the book of Daniel 11:31.
      Freemasons mention what you say to create division and confusion, and many believe with blindness.

      • Mary Shinn

        Robert Bb,
        You say the “Anti-Christ wouldn’t even allow the holy sacrifice (Catholic Mass) and will ban it”… Daniel 11: 31 says “daily sacrifice”…

        31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

        The verse says “take away”
        +
        The verse says “they shall place the AOD”

        The Holy SACRIFICE of the Mass is continual, every DAY every hour offered around the world. It is not a matter of the AC not allowing.
        It is prophesied, he is going to take the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass
        away. The AC desires and will attempt to abolish the most Holy Eucharist. He believes Jesus is truly present in the Holy Eucharist.
        This is the ABoMIDATION OF DESOLATio

        • Robert Bbb

          Yes, my comment was in favor of the catholic Mass in that satan will go against it. “Taking away” means not allowing as I mentioned.

          • Julie

            Understood. Daily Sacrifice is the Mass…again the Mass continues to make present the One Event of His Life, Death and Resurrection.

            So when we go to Mass on Sunday’s we are encountering the same presence and power of the Lord as of 2000 years ago. Our immediate response in receiving the Eucharist, after meditation and thanksgiving, is the urgency to go out and serve the suffering in the world, to make it better.

        • Instigator

          Satan loves the Eucharist. Keep on killing that Catholic Christ. Keep showing him dead hanging on a cross. Meanwhile, the true and living Christ has completed His works.

          • Robert Bbb

            Wrong, satan hates the Eucharist and wants people to perform black masses which mocks and insults the Holy Mass. Also Halloween day(unholy souls) mocks All Saints Day and All Souls Day which the Church celebrates.

            As I already mentioned before, the One sacrifice of Jesus is present at each Mass which you fail to understand.
            “Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”John 6:32-33 .
            We catholics eat the bread of Life which is Jesus. Hebrews 5 mentions high priests called by God and making sacrifices(making present the One sacrifice of Jesus). But you reject any sacrifices and dont follow what the NT bible mentions, thats a shame.

          • Instigator

            Then what you Catholics do is akin to the Israelis building a new temple and making sacrifices on an altar. Christ is sacrificed – past tense. The Savior finished His work. There is no further need to do so, it was a foreshadowing of what was to come. You are caught up into a corrupted Church.

          • Robert Bbb

            Israel’s sacrifice on the altar was the old covenant, we deal with the new covenant and dont avoid any part of it. Jesus finished His work on the cross and Catholicism teaches us not to be indifferent about it. We recieve the bread of life and the cup of salvation that is the Lamb of God which gives life, Mark 14:22-24
            More info is provided in above post.

          • Chris

            read Hebrew chapter 9-10- 11 the whole book for that matter you will find your answers (no need for priest ,and sacrifice anymore)

          • Robert Bbb

            Good you accept the NT but your understanding is not complete. Hebrews 5 as I was referring to deals more specifically with man in his relationship with the new covenant. Hebrews 9-11 deals more specifically with the old law in contrast with the new covenant. What I mentioned in post above is correct and your view makes the chapters contradict each other.
            Hebrews 5(NT) does mention offering gifts and sacrifices. For Catholicism it is participation in the One sacrifice of Christ(not re-sacrificed). ” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup(of the new covenant), you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.” 1 Corinthians 11:26.
            We no longer have blood of goats and bulls of OT but now have the Lamb of God of the new covenant who gives salvation and life nurishment from his body and blood, John 6:53.

          • Gallibus

            Yet Jesus, in His role as Melchizedek, offers His eternal sacrifice to God eternally – the perfect sacrifice to an all-holy God. Read the articles on Melchizedek on the website catholicbooksanddevotions dot com . It is quite enlightening but requires a lot of thought.

          • Gallibus

            The eternal Christ redeemed us by dying on a Cross – He expects us to die to ourselves too and put on eternal life with Him. He wants us to be grateful to Him for His sacrifice and remember at what great price we were redeemed. Is He asking too much of us?

      • Chris

        wrong !!!!!!daily sacrifice refers to the jewish temple rebuilt during tribulation in Daniel not the catholic mass

        • Robert Bbb

          So then any prophecy people make about future connected to Daniel is not valid. You can’t have it both ways: Others with your view can use Daniel book for future events but those that disagree with you cant use book of Daniel for future events.
          You wrongly reject offering and sacrifices mentioned in Heb 5.

  • Jesse

    My prejudice in this case is backed by solid logic. Catholicism was NOT the teaching of Jesus and His apostles. In another of your posts you said Saint Paul was the first Catholic (I think it was you)and I have read all his letters to his converts and never once does he tell them to erect a statue in the image of mother Mary and worship it, as follows..

    .“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary

    • Julie

      Thank God for the Blessed Mother. She is Our Lord’s greatest gift to the Church and makes us a family, and her prayers magnify the Lord.

      Catholic is derived from the ancient Greek word, universal.

      St. Paul is the evangelist to the Gentiles. Ss. Peter and Paul are the founders to the Church of Rome.

      I think you are too hung up on statues…really, you make them into an idol.

      Catholics are highly educated people. Priests have Ph.D.’s…do you think they are so ignorant that they worship statues or live their lives out as lies?

      Anyway, when I first responded to this article, it came from a secular site. I was responding to the false representation of my faith.

      So you are free to believe what you want. I remember a young Catholic man who converted from being a baptist. He said his friends began accusing him of being a Mary worshipper.

      Idolatry is making a creature an idol which we do not. Anyway, he came back on, and finally he was screaming in the most bold print, ‘I do not worship Mary’….Another woman was a baptist, went to a baptist site and was seeing so many slurs. Having been on our Catholic forum debating us and questioning our faith, after spending time with us, she countered them saying so much of what they were accusing us was not true. They they started calling her a Catholic troll, and saying all sorts of sick things. The next time she came on, she stated she was no longer a baptist. My girlfriend is Afro American, has almost completed her masters in business, and her family wants to return to her baptist roots but she does not. She loves them always. but she will not return.

      It is too bad you cannot fathom the prayer of Mary….she is so close to Christ, and brings us into much great intimacy with Our Lord.

      Anyway, it is better you just focus on the Lord in your own tradition of faith. Really, you do yourself a great service by growing in Him and let the Lord deal with us.

      God bless you.

  • Jesse

    Thank you for the invitation, however I feel very strongly about several of the Catholic “traditions” (I just don’t want to act like some of the poster here have)(of course you’re telling me that I have them mostly wrong, causing my problems, but if I have interpreted wrongly then most others will too.)

    • Julie

      Just take a look. We enter church, we renew our baptismal promises with holy water…and we are entering into sacred space because the church is sacramentally consecrated to God.

      We leave the world and are no longer of it.

      We come in t